To think this is a joke? Companies want so much for nothing

[ALittleCrisp]

Just seen two job adverts saying "Advanced Microsoft package skills is an absolute must".

The pay? £7.80 and £7.85 an hour

This country really has a problem.

Isn’t that standard for any office job? I work in a school and had to know that for my teaching role. I had to know it when I worked in medical research as well? And as a data entry clerk for a summer job...

Yes, this is a huge problem. Recently, while job hunting, I came across an admin job where one of the requirements was to be fluent in a language. I am fluent in this language so read further. The salary was £16,000. That's £500 less per year than my previous unskilled admin job. For providing customer service in two languages. I was horrified.

I don't think advanced Excel is standard for any office job, no. Plenty will barely go near it or only use very basic functionality IME.

It would be great if more employers committed to paying the real living wage, £9 per hour outside of London

I consider myself quite advanced on excel. I recently went for a job interview and was told I would have to do an excel test - fab no issues with that .... except what it actually was, was a load of workings out and math on an excel spreadsheet...math is not my strong point so not only did I feel stupid but it was not worded correctly

I didn't get the job, don't care about that but was pee'd off i hadn't had to do anything excel related so to need 'advanced excel' may mean something totally different to different people! To me it means pivot tables, v look up etc?!

I'll bet at least half of school leavers would not possess 'advanced Microsoft skills'. And as for anyone over 40 .... may be 10% of them. So either the ad is very poorly worded, or there are factors which make it a very desirable job (p/t, fits in with school terms etc.) or the employer is a tad optimistic.

Catering staff jobs are now being advertised in my area at £9 per hour, those without an hourly rate are minimum wage. Employers are struggling to find and retain staff

I don't think advanced Excel is standard for any office job, no. Plenty will barely go near it or only use very basic functionality IME.

True, and until the OP can post the non existent job advert then its a vague thread based on a vague term trying to make some vague point.

A quick glance over indeed (which also scrapes from other job boards) with the term shows that most have "Intermediate to Advanced level" but then specify which packages.

www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=advanced+Microsoft+package+skills&l=

If its some add in a local paper, then it points it to be more the employer not knowing what they want so it could be anything making bullet lists in word through to wanting the moon on a stick.

Recently got a plumber for my mum. He charged over £500 for a few hours work (3 - 4 , I forget) and 1 hour of that at least was spent "popping to the shop to get something". Then I see someone on this thread sees an advert wanting a bi-lingual administrator for £16K and I'm just but maybe also meh. I spent a lot of my life in offices, made a living (just), but I wouldn't choose it because of the low pay, high stress.

Could well believe it on Gumtree ads to be fair!

Just realised I should clarify - when I said "I don't think advanced Excel is standard for any office job, no. " I was replying to a PP who said it was needed for any office job. So I meant it's not required for every office job. Made sense in context but...

I work in finance and have done admin jobs in the past, audited admin teams etc. Even in this area (where they're often better paid) then the majority of people doing admin roles don't use excel - they're mostly using customer data systems combined with Word, IME. Even those who used excel, it would mostly be using a template/calculator/whatever that someone else has built and where they'd just select and enter inputs. Minimal actual excel skills.

I've had to study and take tests to become a Microsoft Office Specialist. I'd expect to be paid more

The person writing the job ad may have no idea what "advanced" means in this context though.
There is no guarantee anyone who knows what they are talking about has checked it.

I don’t think you can expect or demand any sort of specific experience, specialism or technical skill for NMW. What a joke.

"Absolute must" sounds like employment agency speak in which case my comment that the writer of the advert may not know what they are taking about x 100

Most admin jobs are salaried, usually something like £16-18k according to experience. That is usually why they are more desirable than cleaning or warehouse jobs which generally aren’t.

Could well believe it on Gumtree ads to be fair!

Yeah, that's my thinking, so its a useless employer asking for moon on a stick, makes the thread even more vague as a 20yr old on 30k looking for jobs on Gumtree doesn't really tally up.

I agree with the rest of you post, I work as Dev/DBA for the past 20 years, our admin only use of Excel is clicking buttons or using complex formulas that either we have created or people who have a long grounding in excel etc. I have been senior since before Gove changed the system and from the apprentices we take straight out of school I have not noticed any drop off in their general office package use. But I admit this is just anecdotal.

I would kind of agree with this thread if the theme were a general, employers wanting the moon on stick approach, although even then that gets murky with the devaluation of degrees, complexity of the job, and availability of candidates that can do it etc.

I've had to study and take tests to become a Microsoft Office Specialist. I'd expect to be paid more

And the majority of employers requiring your skill set would highlight the skillset or packages rather than the vague term, you being an MCP or whatever would understand.

It’s odd the job adverts weren’t linked as it’s not like they would be outing or a secret not to be seen by anyone.

Has OP disappeared after divulging her salary

I don’t think you can expect or demand any sort of specific experience, specialism or technical skill for NMW. What a joke.

I don't think you realise the job market then, employers can demand anything they like with all the complexities that has made it so.

They may not get a candidate, but until we see the job advert then its all speculation, there may be attached some excellent progression involved with employer funded training. It might be some small town 150 year old business hanging on by the skin of their teeth thinking that being able to add basic formulas to an excel spreadsheet is considered advanced.

Justanotherlurker

We take apprentices too but in a non-technical business; so we get people who generally didn't study computing/IT etc. Their PC skills are generally absolutely woeful which always surprises me as I kind of expect them to just be a way of life for this generation but they're really not. Absolute basics (copying and pasting, printing, scanning, etc.) are often beyond them.

The best was the time I was asked for carbon paper. We have a form that needs to be completed in certain circumstances, with us keeping one copy and the client another. The form is stored in an excel workbook (not locked down so can be used, formatted perfectly for printing). This person was printing the blank form and filling it in by hand, twice. They wanted carbon paper so they only had to fill it in once. The suggestion that they type it up and then print two copies blew their mind.

I’ve worked plenty of office jobs in Australia, mainly using excel, word etc, I do a little bit of Macro’s. I would consider myself intermediate. Microsoft is pretty complexed, It takes a lot of knowledge to be advanced use..

Don’t get me started on the sh*t I have to put up with for minimum wage my last job you needed a degree for £8.43 an hour fml they want so much for no money these days! It’s sole destroying but degrees are cheap and no one finishes uni with the right experience so you take what you can get! Also these days people have been using Microsoft office since primary school I know I have and I’m 28 now so most people under about 35 will have advanced skills just from growing up with it! You might be selling your skills short! It’s subjective what advanced means as they aren’t asking for qualifications!

That's vague and atypical of the jargon used in these ads, I'd be wondering exactly what that means and for something supposedly requiring advanced skills that rate seems very low. Advanced skills for entry level pay?
That'll either put people off or apply not knowing what it requires or even having the experience. But a lot of these ads are written vaguely to get more people.
It is a joke really, I'd wonder what else they'd want for that pay rate.Some companies do expect so much/everything they can get out of you for as little as they can get away with in return.

I don’t think you can expect or demandanysort of specific experience, specialism or technical skill for NMW. What a joke.

Exactly. An entry level job used to mean just that - your employer would train you from scratch. You cannot expect trained workers if you are paying minimum wage. And if you want skills you should pay more. I realise this is an unpopular view and that these days it's all "what? You don't know how to use a till? What do they teach you in school these days?"

Agree with OP. YANBU