To be upset at peoples reaction to the muzzle?

[Doggydoggydoggy]

Just that really.

Dog wears one because she has nipped a few people.

She is not people aggressive.

I had a woman today clearly frightened because she ran near her buggy.
Near as in running past it.
Not barking/lunging/acting aggressive/approaching the child etc.

The woman got really scared at the sight of my dog, recoiled pulling the buggy so my dog did what most dogs will do in response and looked at her and went to approach.

So I called her back to me immediately and put her lead on.
That didn’t stop the woman constantly looking back angrily at me as she was walking ahead.

I really don’t think my dog had done anything that would reasonably make anyone feel frightened.

I can only assume it is the muzzle making the mum think she must be some child mauling demon.

And I find it really upsetting.

I wanted to talk to her and explain that she has the muzzle for nipping dogs and that I was sorry she frightened her but she honestly poses no risk to her child and has no interest in her child.
But her constant looking back and glaring at me made me feel really uncomfortable so I didn’t.

On the occasions when she has nipped it has always been a big bouncy adolescent jumping all over her.

So you're muzzling your dog because other dog owners aren't keeping their dogs sufficiently under control? Honestly, I think I'd ditch the muzzle, unless the 'nips' are more than normal doggy 'piss off, that's enough' messages.

If you and your dog have no manners then expect people to glare at you

Well said and worth repeating.

I muzzle because I don’t want her nipping but I see no reason to keep a dog with good recall, that doesn’t approach people, that rarely approaches other dogs, that doesn’t bark or chase or lunge or really do anything to give people reasonable concern for their safety permanently on lead just on the basis that she needs a muzzle

Are you saying your dog is friendly, amiable and up for a friendly run around with other dogs, enjoy a walk and has been trained to focus on only you so much that she ignore other dogs and people? If so why have you muzzled her?

I hate dog owners who muzzle a dog and expect everyone else to accommodate it. My dogs have no problem with other dogs/people. I have put the time and effort in. I prefer to walk mine where there is little chance of meeting others - because SOME other dog owners don't have a clue!

You feel your dog needs to be muzzled. There is good reason for that. Keep it leashed.

I’m not sure Errol

She started off tolerant, calm and friendly.

She was attacked/had bad experiences multiple times.

She became nervous of dogs in groups and in close spaces like vets and cafes.

Occasionally she would lip curl or growl if a dog was a bit forward but generally friendly, if a bit shy.

I implemented CARE and over time for whatever reason she slowly got worse
Started reacting to every single dog and got a nervous around sounds and strange people (not aggressive, Just nervous)

I tried a new, controversial method because I was concerned at just how anxious she was becoming.

It (appears) to be working amazingly well!
Far far calmer and more confident.
Been having a great time playing with other dogs.
She met several briefly today with no hint of discomfort whatsoever.

She goes to a dog walker and stays and interacts with lots of dogs.
Her dog walker said in the beginning she was a bit growly at times but was interrupted with a no or ah ah or similar if there was no good reason for the growl and gets on swimmingly now. No reactivity.

So, I’m really not sure if I should be muzzling her or not really!!
But I do.

@MadeleineMaxwell No, I get it too, but the OP clearly doesn't...

OP, you were upset and scared the woman might verbally abuse you about the dog you love? Why does that trump her fear that your dog might jump on her child (who presumably she loves...)??

Her baby was under control in his buggy, your " baby " was not if it was not walking calmly by your side or on a leash in a public area.

A person's right to walk about without being fearful a dog might bother them (even to sniff / lick, not even attack), trumps your dog's right to run around people, irrespective of intent.

And to those posters who say "well, I don't like children so have the right for them not to run round me when I'm out in the park". Stop it, just stop it, clearly it is NOT comparable!

the vast majority of dogs are safe, and a friendly dog jumping on you might scare you, but it's normal to be able to process being a bit scared and get on with it and realise there was no threat there

FFS! On what planet is it ok to be so out of control of your dog that you allow it to jump on somebody, and then genuinely think you've done them a favour by teaching them how to process it, and realise there was no threat there!!??

I despair.

I can see from that you'd rather be safe than sorry - and given she seems happy with the muzzle on, probably best stick with what works and don't try not to worry about random people's reaction.... IRL and on MN.

Yabbas if you read my previous thread you’ll see that I have ptsd so yes I know a little of anxiety. Extensive treatment suggests that actually rationalisation is the answer!

My two dogs are retired racing greyhounds. They always wear muzzles in public. They are the most friendly loving placid dogs with all humans and large dogs.

Not their fault they think all small dogs and cats are the electric hare. That's why they wear them.

I don’t even think your dog sounds dog aggressive, merely just warning other dogs off when they’re bothering her. If she has good recall even when with another dog I wouldn’t muzzle her, you’re making her disadvantaged with other dogs.

People are not ‘at risk’ with your dog (no more so than with any other dog at least).

I’d stop with the muzzle.

This thread has a lot of aggressive & batshit posts by people clearly not in possession of adequate brain cells. Try not to let it upset you.

I bloody love dogs but I think they ought to be on leads. For a start, you can't always see where they've taken a shit to clear it up.
But my DS had a sandwich taken out of his 18 month old hand on a park bench and it took us years to remedy his fear. The dog wasn't vicious but we had a right not to have it snatching. Funnily enough, it ALWAYS seems to be the first time a dog has ever done anything. So, there is a first time. Whether they've done it before or not. And a muzzled one still has claws it hasn't used before too. In a field that's commonly used for dogs, fine, let them off. In parks and woodlands where people are likely to be enjoying, please don't.

I really don't understand why you care that one woman stranger was afraid of your dog, and gave you an angry look. I also don't know why you think an angry look is likely to lead to violence and aggression from a woman with a child.

It's easily resolved in the moment - if the animal you're responsible for has (accidentally) scared someone else, then apologise for it and move away.

And in any case, I stated repeatedly that my dog doesn’t approach people. She only went to with this woman because of her odd (to the dog) reaction.
So she doesn’t approach people, except when she does?

Is there a list of dog approved “odd things people do” you think should be handed out. Or, will you just accept, your dog does approach people and it’s not the fault of the people.

@deadbudgie if someone is in the middle of an anxiety attack because there is a dog running near, no amount of “dogs only killed 17 people to 2015” will calm them down. It may well be part of a wider treatment programme, but it is not the answer to a person with anxiety when a dog comes running towards them.

I don't think op is ever going to get it. It doesn't matter, how friendly (or dangerous) the dog is. What matters is what the mother with child in a buggy thought.

Dog running off lease, mother scared, dog approaches. I know I would be scared because I would have no idea if the dog is under control, I would have no idea if it is dangerous or safe. I would not take any risk, why should I have to?

You blame the mother for being scared, how ridiculous is that. Some dogs are scary, for some people ALL dogs are scary. Get your dog under control, put them on a leash & stop being so entitled.

I bloody love dogs but I think they ought to be on leads

I disagree. Dogs need to be exercised. No dog, who is friendly and well trained needs to be kept on lead.

Because some people are unhinged assassinated?
Have come across aggressive women with kids before now so yes if I was getting repeated glares from a woman with child I would be anxious anticipating trouble tbh.

I wanted to!
But her attitude made me think maybe I had better not.

And I think most social animals will investigate something odd or interesting yabbers

I don’t ‘blame’ the mum for being scared actually.

I think the dog wasn’t doing anything that would or should give anyone reasonable cause for concern, I think it was likely the muzzle that made her feel afraid.

I said the idea that my dog is vicious is upsetting because she isn’t.

I said I felt uncomfortable with her glaring.

That is not quite the same as blaming someone for being scared really.

"I think the dog wasn’t doing anything that would or should give anyone reasonable cause for concern," - see, this is the thing here. You don't know how any other person feels about dogs. Some people will have had bad experiences and be afraid of them. That's totally reasonable. She didn't know that the dog could be recalled, and wasn't going to jump up onto her and her baby. The muzzle won't have helped because as discussed one reason for wearing it is uncontrolled aggression towards people.

Yabvu

I speak as someone who doesn't like dogs so am admittedly biased.

A stranger does not know your dog and its behaviour. You might know that it will ignore, stop and watch or whatever but others don't. It's like when you walk down a deserted street at night when you hear footsteps behind you. That person could remain walking the same speed, dash past you or run up to you. You don't know. Nature programs mums to be hyper vigilant. Your dogs face might be at the same height as her child which increases the vigilance sometimes. Most people who are not keen on dogs (or have kids who aren't keen on dogs) will have stories of unreasonable dog owners (Sorry!) and there's no way of people knowing if you're responsible or one of those blinkered owners.

While I understand that a muzzle keeps people/other dogs safe from attack, it's a symbol that remind's people that dogs are animals and therefore unpredictable. My initial reaction would be to be wary too. A comparable situation that I can think of is say you enter a place with metal detector and bag search. Even though it's unlikely that you'll be in danger for a moment you think about what could be.

There have been several occasions when I've been out walking and there is a dog off the lead and it looks like the dog is going to run past me (like you say your dog was) and at the last minute it's turned to me, or doubled back to me. So now even if it looks like the dog is going to run past I would react the same way as the woman in your post. I don't like dogs and I don't want them near me, muzzled or not. They can still jump up. Dogs should be on a lead in public.

OP, I started the thread with a lot of sympathy for you but have less and less as the thread wears on.

You want this woman to have attributed only the purest motives and behaviours to you and your dog, but are actively seeking the most malign interpretations of her behaviours.

Have you thought about other motivations for her looking back? That she is honestly scared of dogs, rightly or wrongly? That your dog stopping and making to approach, which appeared normal behaviour to you, wasn’t to her?

You describe her as ‘flapping’ for pulling her buggy away from a dog running past, which may have surprised her. You describe her as ‘aggressive’, despite her not approaching you or speaking to you. Have you considered she might have been looking back to make sure the dog wasn’t following, or too close, because she was nervous of it? That she has experienced bad dog owners before and wasn’t confident that you would leave the dog on the lead? That what is ‘reasonable’ to you for a reason to be scared of a dog isn’t the same for her?

Have come across aggressive women with kids before now so yes if I was getting repeated glares from a woman with child I would be anxious anticipating trouble tbh.

Perhaps she has come across aggressive dog owners with muzzled dogs before, so yes if a muzzled dog runs nearby then turns and looks like it’s going to approach she would be anxious anticipating trouble tbh.

As a dog owner I would be fucking embarrassed if my dog couldn't pass another dog or person without causing trauma!

Either you put in the time and effort to train your dogs to be sociable or you don't. In my experience most dog owners do. Those who dont can claim the label of 'crap dog owner'. Good Luck to them! People walking in the park or other dog owners won't, ever, appreciate an I'll mannered dog approaching them.

A dog with a muzzle who approaches a mum with a baby in a buggy deserves to be reported

I think the dog wasn’t doing anything that would or should give anyone reasonable cause for concern, I think it was likely the muzzle that made her feel afraid

And that is the root of the issue. You don't think there is ANY reason to be scared around your dog.

But as lots of people have said they do have reasons to be scared. Can't you understand that people believe differently than you do? And that is why your dog should be leashed because people think, feel, and react differently than you would.

I did a quick google of Border Collies:
"Border Collies tend not to be the kind of dog that you can let loose to run with your kids around the neighborhood. It is often the "perfect" dog that everyone felt they could trust that ends up biting a child - generally because they are trusted and thereby exposed to many more of the potentially dangerous situations."

I know plenty of dogs who wear muzzles because they will eat everything and anything on a walk.

Surely a dog with a muzzle, isn't a threat? A dog without a muzzle is more of a threat?

And I think most social animals will investigate something odd or interesting

Which is fine if it's a tree or a pile of cow manure, if it's a person, YOU, as a RESPONSIBLE owner should not allow your dog to investigate / run past / start to approach them...

To all those posters who are saying that the OP is not being unreasonable, that the woman should have KNOWN that the dog was harmless and was making a fuss over nothing - have you any idea what it's like to be terrified of something, even if you know it's irrational?

Once again, a person's right to go for a walk with her child in a buggy and to not be approached in any way, shape or form by a dog, trumps any dog owner's rights to allow her dog to run free. If someone feels that the dog is getting too close - IT.IS.GETTING.TOO.CLOSE!! Have some empathy people!!