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Original poster

Gathering evidence

33 replies

Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 12:59

Sorry didn't really know where to post thing but need some ideas/advice.
My gran is fairly elderly my grandpa passed last year so she now lives on her own. This is my DM mum. My DM has 3 other siblings. She used to be very close with one until my grandpa passed and they fell out. My aunty then became close with the other sister who she used to hate. This other aunty has always been quite selfish, asking for things off my gran e.g. her engagement ring and other things worth money.
When my grandpa passed these 2 aunties took it upon themselves to arrange all my gran' s financial affairs . To cut a long story short I've had a feeling these 2 aunties are taking advantage of my gran. They have control of her banks. My aunty for some reason has kept my grans debit card. My DM is trying to say she don't want to point the finger but is now becoming concerned. She has told me one of the aunties has took forms/docs to do with my grans house. My gran is worried and was on the phone to 1 or them when my DM was there and they are denying they have no forms. Also 1 of the aunties and her husband has been done for benefit fraud a while ago and it was a large some of money so I feel like I wouldn't put things past them.
So my question is how do we gather evidence if there has been wrong doing? Or to check that all my grans finances are ok. I obviously don't want to go in all guns blazing if I have no hard evidence.
Sorry for the long complicated post

OP posts:
Queenofthestress · 08/01/2019 13:01

I would be speaking to the bank for starters and getting that card cancelled, then I would be contacting the police about the returning of the docs, it also might be worth getting adult social services involved

dullclothesbrightmind · 08/01/2019 13:03

My understanding is that the police take financial abuse seriously (at least that is what I was told on a work training course) so you could speak to them and social services about your concerns.

Santaisfastasleepatlast · 08/01/2019 13:08

Your local council will have a vulnerable adult dept. Report your concerns.

5foot5 · 08/01/2019 13:12

Have they actually arranged Power of Attorney?

Mummylife2018 · 08/01/2019 13:15

CALL 101 NOW!!!! Police take financial abuse very very seriously. Also call your local council and ask for their Social Care team

Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 13:51

But it would be a call based on suspicions and not hard evidence? The police wouldn't be able to do anything will they?
Also I feel my mum is burying her head in the sand! She is reluctant to stand up to them. She's never been one for confrontation. Whereas I want something done

OP posts:
Queenofthestress · 08/01/2019 17:07

It doesnt matter, they will investigate anyway, or atleast adult social services will if the police don't

LittleOwl153 · 08/01/2019 17:15

Definately report - and dont let it go.

With your Grans permission get a power of attourney drawn up for your mum / you and in doing so cancel out any others that might be submitted.

Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 17:55

Power of attorney is one of my 2 aunties. And I know 1 of them is a signatory on her bank and it's the one with the debit card. My gran before said all was fine as she has bank statements but I feel she doesn't know what's going on with it all in all honesty.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 17:56

Also just want to add. I haven't done anything before on my mum's wishes but I feel like someone needs to do something now. I think I may fall out with my mum by going against her wishes but can't let this slide

OP posts:
Queenofthestress · 08/01/2019 18:03

Adult social services definitely need to be involved

eightoclock · 08/01/2019 18:13

If they have power of attorney they are allowed to use your gran's bank cards/money to pay the bills/expenses for things she needs. That is what power of attorney is. I think you would need to ask your gran to look at her statements together and see if there are any unexpected outgoings. Presumably your gran isn't up to managing her own affairs if she has gone down this route? So it might be difficult to discuss with her. I don't see why the aunts should be taking documents relating to the house though.

When someone in my family was given power of attorney for another relative, everyone who was a beneficiary of the will was contacted to let them know - presumably this is so that people can keep an eye on what's going on. There will be a solicitor involved with this - maybe you can contact them and ask what can be done?

Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 18:19

I think they are power of attorney so I will need to check. My gran is of sound mind though so I don't know why she would need one. My grandpa dealt with all the money bills docs so they volunteered themselves to do this for her as she didn't know what to do. I've just spoken to my DM on the phone and apparently my gran said the aunts now don't tell her what's going on and so she's asked my DM to go through the bank statements with her. My gran didn't bring it up with the aunt that took the docs, have a feeling she's a bit intimidated. But said to my DM I don't understand why she would want them.
My gut is telling me there is something going on

OP posts:
Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 18:27

It doesnt matter, they will investigate anyway, or atleast adult social services will if the police don't

They really wont, at least not from what OP has said so far. If your relative rang the police now and said they had a feeling another family member was financially abusing you do you think they would be straight round? Same for social services.

eightoclock gives good advice. Also check things like does she have enough food, clothes etc.

Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 18:30

Hotchocolate18 what does your Gran want to do about this?

Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 18:34

tess she's now asked my mum to go through bank statements with her. My mum is being so causal about it which is irritating me. It's because she doesn't want confrontation. My DM also said back a few months ago if they were found to be taking money she wouldn't turn them in as they are still family. I don't know why she thinks this. They have been horrible to my DM. And I certainly would want something done about it. I might go with my DM to my grans.

OP posts:
Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 18:40

Hotchocolate18 you can have two people with LPA. Maybe if your mum is added as an attorney? Your Gran could approach it from a "It's recommended to have two such and such was telling me", that's true as any cursory research will show. It would be better if your aunt was removed but at least if your mum is added there will be more oversight and no falling out.

Does your Gran have carers at the moment?

Original poster
Hotchocolate18 · 08/01/2019 18:56

Both aunts were at the will reading but my DM and their brother were not. So maybe the other aunt has power of attorney too. My gran is still able bodied too and has a sound mind. Just my grandpa dealt with the financial side of things so she doesn't know how x

OP posts:
Fontofnoknowledge · 08/01/2019 18:57

You need to contact the Office of the Public Guardian and the Financial Ombudman.

You can speak to the Office of the Public Guardian if you have concerns about mental capacity or the actions of an attorney by contacting 0300 456 0300

Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 19:00

Sorry do you mean your Aunt/s had LPA for your Granddad or currently have it for your Grandma?

Fontofnoknowledge

OP says Gran is able to make her own decisions, they won't be interested. The most they will do is contact OPs Gran who apparently doesn't want to rock the boat so it will make no difference.

Fontofnoknowledge · 08/01/2019 19:45

I think they are power of attorney so I will need to check. My gran is of sound mind though so I don't know why she would need one.

It looks to me like one of the aunts has pursued gran that she needs a POA. (When she doesn't). This is absolutely the type of thing to take to the Public Guardian Office AND the Office of the Financial Ombudsman.

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/power-of-attorney/difficult-situations.html

Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 20:49

This is absolutely the type of thing to take to the Public Guardian Office AND the Office of the Financial Ombudsman

Unless they are questioning her capacity (which OP has said they are not) then they wont be interested unless the information comes from the donor.

She has the right to give LPA to whoever she chooses and is under no obligation to start explaining herself because another family member is unhappy. Not that I am saying OP is unhappy without cause- I am just pointing out how the situation can objectively be described.

This all boils down to what the OPs Grandma's wants and is willing to do about it. She should be supported as much as possible but it's ultimately her choice.

Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 20:51

I forgot to mention you can only get LPA if you are of sound mind. That's the whole point of it.

Fontofnoknowledge · 08/01/2019 22:44

Sorry OP. I disagree with pp. Call the number and get the answer from the Court of protection. They can also advise of any action you can take re possible financial abuse.

Tessliketrees · 08/01/2019 23:14

Fontofnoknowledge I completely agree that OP should explore this outside of asking randoms on the internet but I am right. It's common sense if you think about it and backed up by a modest amount of Googling. OPs Grandma is an adult who can make her own desicions, suggesting her Grandchild can override these desicions because she has vague reason to suspect her aunts aren't above board is madness. OP knows this herself hence the thread asking about evidence gathering.

They can also advise of any action you can take re possible financial abuse

Only the same advice as anybody else would give "Call the police if there has been a crime".

There are regularly posts on here from desperate family members who are witnessing the financial abuse of loved ones at the hands of their spouse. It's rare people will suggest that the OP rings the police or social services in those cases because everybody knows that with crimes like those it's almost impossible for authorities to step in without the support of the victim. Well it's no different when you are older or disabled. People still have rights to make their own desicions however harmful they may be.

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