Will this work? Primary School Application

[TeenTimesTwo]

Will posting on here to remind people to apply for English primary schools by 15th January work?

Will it also help to say:

• check the admission criteria, don't just assume that because you can see it from your bedroom window you will get a place

• use all the spaces on the form, you might as well

• put a 'banker' on somewhere (a school you expect to meet the criteria for. If you don't you could end up with a school you still hate, but miles away)

• don't put the same school down multiple times, it won't 'show how keen you are'

• don't lie about your address - it's dishonest

• put them in your true preferred order (no the school doesn't know where you place them, and no they can't take offense and not offer just because you put them second with an outside chance school first)

• and finally, if you have chosen it because it gets brilliant y6 SATs without looking at how they are achieved, don't come back in 7 years complaining how hard they are pushing the children to get those results.

Just throwing it out there, what if there genuinely are only 3 schools you would send your child to? Should you put down the names of schools you wouldn't send them to just for the sake of it?

Just because you'd only send your child to three schools out of six in the area doesn't mean you'd get a place at them! If you don't qualify for a place by distance, catchment etc at any of them, you'll be allocated what's left after everyone else's places have been allocated. Has happened to a few friends of mine actually.

You need to check you have a reasonable chance of getting in to at least one of your preferred schools.

IME improving schools can be a WAY better choice than already-outstanding schools. When they’re on the up, compared to uptight and stubbornly clinging to their laurels.

Another tip - if you're moving house because of school catchments/wanting a particular school, do your research first to check your prospective new address will actually give you a realistic chance of getting in. Friend of mine smugly moved to get into a better school when our kids were 3 but didn't check - only found out when applying for school the next year that the house was out of catchment even though it was really near.

Echo the advise a PP gave about applying out of catchment for first child doesn't mean younger siblings will get in - another friend ended up with kids at different schools in opposite directions.

I appreciate responses, it's still hypothetical for me but I imagine it will seem like no time at all.

Is there a any way to ensure siblings get into the same school?

Are there still feeder schools for secondaries? Do you still have to get into the "right" primary to get into the secondary school you want?

@SnuggyBuggy it depends what you would do if those three schools were full. Would you genuinely prefer to homeschool or move house in order to get another school place? If you wouldn't do either of those things then you might need to consider the other schools in your area. Are you basing this judgment of the other schools on hearsay or something more concrete? It's amazing how long school reputations last for, they can change quite dramatically under a new Headteacher.

There’s no way to “ensure” anything SnuggyBuggy. The point of this thread is to point out that you can’t play the system or guarantee anything through the way you apply. Check the rules in your area, make realistic choices and understand the sibling criteria if it’s important.

For siblings check the LEA policy. We don’t have catchments, it’s all done on distance - Our LA has siblings on the priority list above “all other children” so you’d get a sibling link if you have one kid at school. However in areas with defined catchments, if your first child is at a school out of your catchment, the second will fall into the lowest priority and more likely than not won’t get a place. This happened to my friend last year and ended up with kids at different schools. If first sibling is at a school in your catchment area, next siblings are much higher up the priorities list and probably will get a place.

Snuggy Some areas have 'feeder schools' systems, some don't. So where I live in Hants there are recognised feeder schools where priorities go catchment, feeder, out of catchment.

Sometimes people use 'feeder school' to mean 'the children from here generally go to X' even though there is no formal priority. See also 'catchment area' which means 'defined priority area' in some areas, and just 'the area surrounding the school where you generally have to live to get in' elsewhere.

The most general way to improve chances of siblings going to the same school is to apply to your local school.

If there are only 3 schools you 'would send your child to' you have to think through the implications of what that means. Would you really be willing and able to home-school for as long as it takes for you to be at the top of the list when a space comes up? Really? or would a poor school where you supplement at home be preferable?
Generally there are no down sides to filling up the whole list. If come September you decide you can't stomach the allocated school you can just reject it then and home ed. No need to make that decision 8 months early.

Yes depends on local rules but the norm these days is that any in catchment sibs have priority over most others in catchment, but out of catchment siblings are below ALL in catchment children. So while there are never any guarantees, by sending one child out of catchment you may run a significant risk of not getting them both into the same school. Whereas by sticking in-catchment you are very close to being guaranteed a place for siblings. Incidentally the same applies if you have to reapply for junior schools - getting into an out of catchment infant school may not guarantee you a place in juniors, and if most of the other local schools are primaries where you don't have to reapply for Y3, your child may be moved away from all their friends and allocated somewhere many miles away.

We have had a lot of this round our way and it has caused a lot of grief and anger. I don't think people always understand what a risk they are taking by sending their child out of catchment. One good OFSTED or a big birth year can swing your undersubscribed junior school to massively oversubscribed, and suddenly they are turning away even some in-catchment children and certainly don't have space for your younger children. It does entirely dependent on what the rules are for your LEA but these tend to be really clearly spelled out. Just understand the consequences.

Is the penultimate one true for secondaries? I ask because a secondary local to me says they offer every child who puts them as first preference a place.

fulfina check your local rules. That's always the bottom line.

Thanks all, it's mostly hypothetical at the moment. DD is just a baby and I've not looked in detail though there is a good school over the road I'd be happy with I think.

I just want to try an understand the system as it seems so different to my day. We will have to try and look into whether the school's feed into secondaries, there are plenty of decent primaries but only a few potential secondaries if that makes sense.

This does fascinate me as in Scotland you do go to your local school andnits very rare not to get into your catchment school (in fact i’ve never actually heard of it happening). My friend had to apply to our secondary as the school she was meant to go to is super rough. Her mum regused to sendbthe to Stab High School.

fufulina I ask because a secondary local to me says they offer every child who puts them as first preference a place.

In England they really shouldn't be saying that as it is misleading.

1. What if 1000 families put them first and they are only a 200 / yr intake?
2. If you live next door and put them second and are rejected by your first choice, then you will get a place over and above someone 10 miles away who put them first (other things being equal). I think they are trying to scare people into putting them first!

Scotland is a different system. I think they more or less have to take all in catchment children? Are they tied to the 30 size limits as infants in England are?

I have had schools telling me about putting them first otherwise you won't get a place - its really naughty and just not how it works!

Do schools see what order you put them in?

No @SnuggyBuggy and if they did they can't just judge your application on it, they follow the admission policy criteria- if they don't follow this correctly then they can be hauled up on the error.
Most important thing to find out (that I don't think has been mentioned enough on this thread) is the last distance of the child that got in on distance. This is available from your local authority for the last cohort. My local primary has quite a large "catchment" area but the last distance is something like 0.2 miles - so if you live further than 0.2 miles away from the exact location they measure as the school location, its unlikely that your child would get in. This is just a couple of roads worth, it's absolutely tiny. Most people seem to be ignorant of this last distance value but it's absolutely crucial to work out which school you can realistically get your eldest child in to.

If you put your catchment school 6th and live next door to it AND aren't successful in getting into the other 5 schools on your list because they're oversubscribed with people closer than you you WILL get into your 6th choice next door school on distance even if 1000 parents further away chose it as their first choice. Distance distance distance that's the main criteria (& looked after children/EHC plans/in catchment siblings) but distance is the main factor.

Reminder that admissions fraud (or “playing the system” as people prefer to call it when they’re committing it ) is not a victimless crime. You are depriving a child of a place who should’ve had one.

Interesting with school telling prospective parents to put them first. The cohort making applications for this year is actually smaller than the previous few as the birth rates are falling significantly enough to mean that for the first time in a long, long time schools are having to really sell themselves to get their rolls full.

A school isn't financially viable without a pretty much a full roll, and many schools are starting at this point. So I can see why people are being asked to put a particular school first, because that's the only way you would get a place if your first choice is an "outsider".

What they should not do is give you the impression that you will get a place just because you put them first, because that's not how it works.

I hate to say it but I imagine a lot of parents take an every man for himself view when it comes to getting a good school place.