Siblings and family house dispute unfolding

[Waitaway1970]

To cut long story short my DF put his house as joint tenancy with my DB and myself many years ago. He did it to ensure security as he was getting remarried and so was DB and he didn’t want the eggs in one basket- I naively agreed at the time...I was very young and was doing him a favour with no intention of any financial gain as insirally he had said the house was for DB (who currently lives in it with his wife and children but DF pays for the mortgage etc) We are 7 siblings and over the years there have been various family dramas/ presently 5 siblings are barely on speaking terms with DB, DF and to some extent me as well. Recently siblings have confronted DF about his choice of joint tenancy with me and DB and have expressed their rage at his choice. Problem is DF keeps changing his mind about how things should be split after his life. At times he says since his other children have not bothered with him for years, he feels they deserve nothing from him and he doesn’t want them to get share in his house( he has been the only one to pay mortgage and contributions alone). Other times he says they are also his children and should be given some rights. I have expressly asked him to tell me what I should do with ‘my share’ if something should happen to him and he has indicated that I should give them ‘something’ but then quickly adds it should not be to the same value as what I would get or DB would get. We get taken care of him etc and he feels let down by the others. I want to do the right thing and have spent nearly a year trying to reconcile their differences but it’s all very complicated and now the house has aggravated things further. DF is elderly and in some ways doesn’t seem to care to sort things out in his lifetime which I’m worried about as it will leave all the burden on me to sort out. If DF says expressly they are to get nothing from him, do we go with that? Or other times when he says they should get ‘something’? He says he will make a will but hadn’t done so as yet and probably won’t get round to it...I feel the other siblings should be given a fair share but I know my DB will not be agreeable to this... which will cause a huge bust up between him and I in the future...your thoughts please

Have sent he other link. Yes it is joint tenancy we have. Main difference I think is DF wishes are not explicit/ I think he is unsure what to do. I have spoken to him endlessly and said the others should be included. He isn’t fully convinced and DB is against the idea so he doesn’t want to upset him.

I'm no legal bod but as it stands (I think) when your DF dies you and your DB automatically then own 50% each, your DF does not have a share as such to pass on. However, this will bring about it's own issues. As your brother lives in the house, if he is still living in it and you live elsewhere, when you come to sell the property after your father dies (whether straight away or not, or whether you sell your share to your brother or the whole thing is sold to someone else) you will be liable for capital gains tax but your brother won't be because it will be classed as his main residence. It would also be up to you and your brother whether or not you decide to gift any of the proceeds you receive to anyone else.

I would also ensure your father as adequate life insurance to cover the mortgage and any other costs relating to his death otherwise you may then be liable for covering the payments. If there is no outstanding mortgage now then there is no need to have you and your DB as joint tenants and your father should make a will so that his intentions are clear, although this sounds like it might be easier said than done.

As has been suggested, it may be easier to get your father to change it to tenants in common, which would mean you and your brother would keep your respective third share and your father's third will form part of his estate (although you may well still have a CGT liability and/or inheritance tax liability). Without a will this would then leave his estate intestate and you will have to go through some fairly lengthy processes to get sorted but would essentially mean anything is most likely to go to your father's wife (this would be the same if there are any other investments, cash, etc, that are part of the estate not just the house).

Unfortunately, nobody else apart from you can answer the question of what to do with the money you receive after he has died and the property is sold if he doesn't make a will. His current decision (by the choices he has made) is to leave the house to you and your DB only and anything else to his wife (via probate because of no will in place). If he is clear he doesn't want this to be the case then he needs to make a will to state what he does want to happen even if it's just to make sure anything else (other than the house) is left to someone else not his wife.

Thank you everyone- hellsbells77 the mortgage is all paid- I should add the house is worth in excess of a million pounds. Will speak to a solicitor very soon about changing it to tenants in common and also look more into CGT. I already have my first residence and tbh am not interested in taking the inheritance. It has already caused so many problems. But will speak to DF and ask him to make his wishes clear, via a solicitor. Thank you for all the good advise here.

That;s really useful. So check the finances with the soon to be ex wife are in a court order or a consent order which is sealed (has a stamp on it) from the court and is a clean break order so she cannot come back for more later.

Then any of the 3 owners - you, brother and father can unilaterally sever the joint tenancy so it is not left to the other 2 when the first dies and instead goes under the will or intestacy of the one who dies.

Your father will with your consent have power to change the ownership of 2/3rd but cannot change what the brother (£300k) has. Father could put his share into names of other 5 siblings for example or leave his share to those 5 although 60k v 300k is not that fair. Ther also need to be discussions about when father dies as the brother living there with his family may not be rushing to move out and probably unable to buy out the other heirs so he needs to start considering now where he and the family will live and if his wife could get some kind of possession order as children live there.

Going to a solicitor sounds like the best thing to do. It might be that if a house is in joint names with adult children one of whom lives there there is no capital gains tax on any rise (London has falls in value currently though so will depend on the area) in the value from date it went into the 2 children's names.

Sounds like you also need a good IFA - week recommendations from friends or see if solicitor works alongside a good practitioner. A solicitor can only do so much - they are the legal specialists but sounds like a professional looking into all the financial implications would be helpful.

The advice on this thread is good. He does need a will though or you’ll be ££££ our of pocket trying to get probate etc sorted.

So rolling back a bit, OP mentions DF is elderly and in some ways doesn’t seem to care to sort things out in his lifetime & it this that brings an urgency to both get both specialist legal & financial advice separately for your DF AND determine his capacity.
This may sound alarmist but it is a matter of purely practical common sense.

First, I suggest a getting specialist lawyer - see my comments above about Law Society online or ring them to check what category of specialist lawyer would be best to engage for ADVICE. From that an IFA may be found. Do not use nearest generalist on the High Street.

Given DF’s uncertainty (& possibly his age & overall health) there may be a need to confirm his capacity before taking legal instructions. Irony of this when needing to resolve decisions made years ago! This may sound a bit far fetched...but don’t be surprised if a legal or financial specialist gently enquires about his health when it comes to taking instructions. Their GP would be available to comment.This would also be an assurance to any potential future claims about decisions he makes now about his estate. There are no guarantees that any new arrangements will be acceptable to all & given the changes made more recently it may be claimed that he was not fit to make sound decisions.

IMEx, an inexperienced solicitor took instruction from an elderly family member to rewrite a very sensible will to favour someone who seemed sensible, but a quick check of more detailed records & previous instructions on file would have raised a chorus of red flags about the situation. Particularly when said elderly relative was on a EMI (Elderly Mentally Infirm) ward pending assessment for residential care, just before their legal address changed to a location that clearly would suggest medical advice before taking legal instruction. So tread carefully & do things by the legal book, take specialist advice particularly for yourself.

Don’t forget that even if DF does manage with YOU & DH to agree & change the tenancy condition, if he dies intestate, that there are inheritance rules that apply to his spouse, & thereafter the seven siblings legally equally entitled to inherit from his estate.

A solicitor will point out that there are seven sibles, not five when it comes to your father’s estate, & IMO equally divided between the total sibling set is the fairest thing for all. Tweaking & adjusting a finite pot (or cake as analogy) is a recipe for resentment & delayed disasters.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/who-can-inherit-if-there-is-no-will-the-rules-of-intestacy/