Are there any cons to applying for an Irish passport?

[battenburg100]

Hi
With Brexit so close now, I'm in a dilemma whether or not to apply for an Irish passport. I'm hesitant as although I can see the benefits of having one, alongside my British passport, there are bound to be negatives too - but I'm not sure what they may be, so I would be grateful for any mumsnetters feedback....

Background info - I was born in the UK and have a British passport - my mum was born in Northern Ireland. My sister who lives in France was worried about her employment status there, so applied for and received her Irish passport. She now has dual nationality which has pleased her French employers, but what could be the consequences, particularly negative ones, of me having both types of passport living here in the UK?

Probably no disadvantages. A few minor ones that are unlikely to be an issue:

1. You have to pay to renew two passports over the years UK and Ireland so bit more expense.
2. Ireland might change its tax rules so they are similar to the USA in the future and tax people on worldwide income. As someone said above it currently does not. Eg I think if you are US and UK the US will tax you when you sell a house and make a profit as the UK does not tax you on that already.
3. If you commit a very serious crime the UK may strip you of your British passport but only if you have a second passport as they cannot in law leave you stateles so those with just one passport could not have that happen to them - very few people fall into this category - mostly people going abroad to fight for ISIS etc.
4. You might psychologically feel some kind of divide loyalty I suppose but I doubt that will trouble most people.
5. It might not be very helpful if the rest of the family don't count. My sibling's wife and children have received their Irish passports recently. My sibling does not qualify (they have one irish great grandparent although quite a few earlier ones as people came over - one famly group inthe 1830s and others in about 1850).

I think most English and Irish (and Scottish for that matter) people would think it a bit unfair to say people turned their backs on Ireland. I am pretty sure at least some of my ancestors left after half their families died in famine - there was not a lot of choice about leaving.

Not that the statelessness provisions are likely to be relevant to OP, but remember she's Irish already. She's the child born abroad to an Irish citizen who was born on the island of Ireland. Not holding a passport doesn't make her any less of an Irish citizen, and she would not be rendered stateless by the removal of her British citizenship. People need to stop mixing up holding citizenship and holding a passport. Not the same thing. Though I wouldn't be worrying too much about this particular point OP unless you're in Al Qaeda!

Also the usefulness in one family member holding an EU passport is that this allows them to work in another EU country and take non-EU family members with them. So if the UK does leave and OP decides she wants to move to France, EU free movement rights allow her as an Irish citizen to bring her non-Irish partner and kids.

Thanks namechange34 that is very useful. I will strongly consider it.

Regarding the 'selfishness' issue: of course it is! I can't think of any non-self serving reason to assume dual citizenship or passport really. I'm looking into this because it is (potentially) in my families interest - it's crazy to suggest otherwise but also silly to pretend that is a bad thing/wrong.

As it happens I'm comfortable with my relationship with Ireland, I have family living there that I'm close to, visits regularly with my family, know the area that my family comes from and lives in well including their neighbours, their culture, their laws but even if none of that were true, even if I'd never been to Ireland and had to living relatives out there it wouldn't change anything, either you are legally entitled to claim citizenship or not. That's it.

I think it should be limited to irish parents. Grandparents should not be accepted. I'll be honest, i have an Irish passport because i identify as Irish i.e from the island of Ireland,,those lands which fully encompass the island and do not recognise any border. I do not wish to identify as British though i currently pay my taxes in the UK.

It is limited to Irish parents.

No it’s not - it goes back to grandparents.

I am currently weighing this up for my DC. I have 3 sons. To get all 3 Irish passports will cost 459 euros for registering their births first, and then another 90 euros for the passports. In addition to the cost of their 5 yearly renewals for their British passports, this is a lot of money. Although I very much think I should do it

Lady Gregory - if your parent is Irish, you can apply. If your parent isn’t Irish, you can’t. You’re talking about the grandparent being born in Ireland. But that makes their child (the parent) Irish. Similarly, those who obtain citizenship by descent have to become Irish before having children in order to pass it on. Therefore you do have to have an Irish parent to be eligible to apply.

Ah I get what you mean Jenny

I don’t know if this was mentioned already, but I thought that if you get into trouble in a country where you are a citizen, British consular support will not be provided. I may be mistaken as to precise circumstances.

Actually, here: “As a dual national you cannot get diplomatic help from the British government when you are in the other country where you hold citizenship.

For example, if you hold both British and Chinese citizenship you cannot get diplomatic help from the UK when you’re in China.”

www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship

It shouldn't be an issue if you're not in the country where you hold your other citizenship though. If someone who has dual British and Irish citizenship gets into trouble in China, both governments should be available to assist.

The only way I see there could be a problem is if the UK or Ireland change any laws related to their citizens post-Brexit. Ireland has had a huge influx of passport applications from non-residents — and being a relatively poor country compared to the UK it’s possible in the future for them to invalidate or restrict the citizenship rules for them in the future like India (and even britain) has done. For example eventually restricting passports to Irish past or present residents / people born there, proving reduced services to non-resident passport holders, placing resident requirements on Irish jobs for people outside of the EU. They could also prevent non-resident Irish passport holders’ children from inheriting rights unless they meet a minimum residence requirement. There’s also the question of military service — there is a lot of talk right now of conscription in various countries as a result of the EU armed forces proposal. If you or your kids have an Irish passport and they implement conscription it’s very possible you would legally have to do it and you might even be arrested in any part of the EU if you don’t (Britain wouldn’t get involved in dual citizenship cases).

There’s also the case of the British government changing it’s rules post-Brexit. It’s very possible in the future, depending on the mess that’s created on the Irish border after March, that they might stop allowing dual citizenship for non-NI resident British / Irish people.

If I were you I would wait until after Brexit before risking anything.

I am currently weighing this up for my DC. I have 3 sons. To get all 3 Irish passports will cost 459 euros for registering their births first, and then another 90 euros for the passports. In addition to the cost of their 5 yearly renewals for their British passports, this is a lot of money. Although I very much think I should do it

I'm the same - I figured it would cost similar to get me and my two kids irish passports, plus then renewing two passports each time. I just don't know if it's worth it at this stage? My DH says it isn't but he might just be jealous as he can't get one!

I think Ireland, being neutral and giving citizenship to all the people of the island regardless of whether they or their ancestors ever set foot in the Republic, is one of the last countries on earth that would introduce conscription.
An attempt to introduce conscription to Ireland during WWI was the tipping point in the push for independence.

Cherries101

Don’t know where to start with the inaccuracies in your post.
Ireland a relatively poor company compared to UK
Ireland is not poor relative to anyone.
Ireland has a booming economy with a highly educated workforce. It is focused on their knowledge economy and at inward investment. Ireland is 5th for GDP per capita! And 6th in World Bank rating. Plus, 1st on high-value foreign direct investment.
Thus, there is no reason to think that Ireland would be any more likely than any other country to change their rules on passports. The examples you gave have high populations - Ireland has an incredibly low population - still several million lower than what it was prior to the potato famine!

Conscription... because of EU armed forces proposals
As a neutral country Ireland would be playing no part in any EU army.

As for Britain stopping allowing dual citizenship - can’t see that ever happening. The Anglo-Irish agreement has been in place a long time, far pre-dating the Good Friday Agreement. (Though the people of the north support the GFA in even higher numbers than ‘98, and it won’t be as easy for Uk gov and DUP to dismantle it as some of them think.) I suppose it could change whenever there is a United Ireland, but I very much doubt it, and that could be as much as 3 decades away.

Anyway, of rules change people can choose to give up their British or Irish passports at that point. Seems mad not to have the benefits in the short - medium term.

My husband cannot get his Irish passport despite having Irish born maternal grandparents. This is because his mother has never registered herself as a child born abroad to an Irish citizen. My own children had to be registered as foreign births prior to the passport application being considered. It’s not quite as simple as saying Granny drunk Guinness so I can have a passport for my children.

Cherry, if your husband’s grandparents were born on the island of Ireland then he is eligible for an Irish passport whether his mother holds one or not. His mother doesn’t need to join the foreign births register, she is already Irish. Your husband will need to join the foreign births register and then apply for a passport.

As for the ignorance in Cherries’ post, I don’t even know where to start 🙄

Your children presumably had to be registered because they are the grandchildren of the Irish born person cherry. So the same would be true of your husband as the grandchild of the Irish born person. It's only great grandchildren of the Irish born person who run into trouble if their parent wasn't on the foreign births register before they were born. It's the same process for your DH as it was for your kids, as described by jenny.

Also, the UK isn't stopping dual nationality, couldn't possibly enforce it even if we wanted to, and in the extraordinarily unlikely event that an EU army starts enforcing conscription, how exactly are Irish citizens living in Brexited Britain going to be obliged to fight? If that were to happen, just stay in the UK.

being a relatively poor country compared to the UK are you high?

yes, shitwithme, is right. I have a great grandparent only so don't qualify. My sibling's children have a grandparent so do qualify and have now already got their passports as has their parent who qualifies.

No, I had to claim citizenship first. Then I had to register the children as foreign births. Then with that bit of paper, we could apply for their passports. There is no automatic right for grandchildren. The parent has to register citizenship first.
In my husband’s case grandmother died many years ago. His mother doesn’t want to pay or have hassle of becoming a citizen. She feels having survived 83 years without it, she has no need. He cannot therefore register as a child born outside of Ireland. Urban myth you just have to have an Irish grandparent.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/passports/applying_for_or_renewing_an_irish_passport.html

Cherries - and being a relatively poor country compared to the UK ???

I stopped reading anything after that. Ireland is not relatively poor at all. You know nothing of what you are talking about. I suggest you go off now and educate yourself on actual facts instead of inaccuracies like these.

HTH

Yes, but Cherry it is not hard is it if you have an Irish GP? I don't think my sibling's children or their parent found it difficult. (The grandmother is alive and lives near them in England and her (grandmother's ) siblings etc all in ireland as far as I am aware).