AIBU about people moaning about UC!

[Lemoncurdkid]

NC for this and sure I’ll get the backlash. I’m also aware there have been other threads. I’m hoping that people will help me see the other POV.

I’m not a stranger to claiming benefits but have never claimed UC.

I seem to see so many articles on how UC have ruined my life. This article annoyed me...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/money/8014429/universal-credit-campaign-poverty-nicola-mclean-mum/amp/

This lady was claiming over £1600 a month in UC. That’s how much I earn monthly on a full time wage and I earn £26k a year. I don’t pay a pension either otherwise it would be £100 less.

I’m comparing my life to others on UC and there doesn’t seem to be reason to complain. Maybe that’s my issue, not to compare!

Along with UC there are many other benefits you can claim for which most don’t speak about. For example, free childcare, free travel, free dentist etc.
I know a lot of people who work 16 hours or who are unemployed, they may struggle but they are not in debt and they seem to live a much happier life than mine. Once again I’m comparing, but I’m struggling, living off credit cards after our bills are paid.

I guess my complaint isn’t that they are entitled to UC, but why complain about it? Shouldn’t we be grateful that we have this option in the UK. Rather than declaring poverty. A person on UC (depending on their circumstances) can actually ‘earn’ more money than a person working full time?

"I’m still in my early 30’s so I’m hoping that will give me enough time" life might change your plans for you.

When I was 30 I was fit, healthy, married, financially secure. By 35 I was disabled, seriously mentally ill, divorced, Lp on benefits. Relationship breakdown (or bereavement - I have a relative that was essentially widowed with 2 young DC at 32, unmarried, ended up homeless and penniless as he died intestate and his family took everything, she'd had to quit work as the kids took the fathers sudden death and loss of their home understandably very badly), a serious car accident caused by a numpty on his phone and my life changed in an instant!

"People who work full time should be better off than those not working in HIS opinion." Yes but the way to address that inequality is NOT to further impoverish the already poor but to improve the wages of those working - who's bosses are making a great profit from their efforts! What does the CEO of your sons company get paid?

Also NOBODY can just quit work and get benefits - not how it works. Even if you're sacked, if your employer had cause you're not eligible.

"It's about all of us as tax payers subsiding Big companies by topping up wages !" Exactly!!

"children are not taken into care solely because their parents are not receiving the correct funding, or not receiving enough benefits." Indirectly they are - because it means those children aren't being fed or housed appropriately! Ironically it costs the govt more to do this than it would to pay their parents enough for the family to live on! It's NOT about saving money, it's about making being poor appear to be IMMORAL!

"Cathy come home" is almost 53 years old and yet this govt is dragging this country back to eras like that!

"I used to be on the old system so not sure if it works the same. But my weekly amounts in benefits totalled more than my wage." How long ago? Because there's been a lot of reductions (rarely properly announced and apparently small amounts but they add up PLUS there's still of course inflation making those reductions in real terms even more costly)

"No it is not. £26k is a decent wage, not minimum wage." It's a relative issue. It depends on cost of living. I would argue a decent wage is a true living wage - ie one that's enough to support a person or better a family to live (cover the basics) without needing subsidy from the govt. it's regional too. Where I live that would be a good wage - but rent, transport & goods are quite cheap here. In parts of the U.K. Where rents & basic necessities cost much more it may not be enough (and that doesn't just apply to London).

"Also many people do not get paid sick leave." Anyone earning ave £116pw is eligible for SSP.

"despite the same prospect of earning after you graduate then those who don't yet have children" how on earth do you work that out?! A graduate without DC has better opportunities/availability for work than a single parent! They're not ltd by childcare, needing flexibility etc

"They don't tend to moan though as value the safety net." Rubbish! We've been railing since the whole pip bollocks started - that we've been ignored and silenced doesn't mean we weren't complaining!

"However there are many claiming because of poor choices they made, i.e. Living in areas they can't afford, having children, deciding to study rather than earn, working part time or not at all. They want it all but don't want to pay for it themselves." Just like the op - who CHOOSES to live in central London and have 3 DC, who's partner CHOSE to go self employed despite the impact on the families finances.

"That doesn’t sound right. I’m sure they can’t just restart your UC your claim because your circumstances change?" Is that scales falling from someone's eyes? Yes they can and do things like this constantly.

"Why though? I can’t see anything that suggests that if you declare a medical condition your claim starts from scratch?" Because it's a 'change in circumstances'

"There will be transitional cover." Only applies until a change of circumstances occurs. Similar to ins companies they'll look for any excuse to avoid paying.

"Even so. If you haven’t made any provisions for your life in the event that you are out of work I don’t think you have any right to complain" and how EXACTLY are the lowest paid people supposed to do this?!

"when it’s obvious she has spare cash for her and Children’s fancy clothing, it really hurts." Wow! It hasn't occurred to you that the NEWSPAPER provided those clothes?! Or they were gifts?

Careful true colours showing here

"I totally understand and agree with benefits for vulnerable people" you don't think single parents count as vulnerable? You ever been one?!

"When someone unemployed starts work, their job seekers allowance ceases from the date they worked, however they don’t get paid until first month completed of work." There used to be overlaps of certain benefits & grants and loans of various kinds to support people into going back to work. They've almost all gone now.

"Ironic that today is Fat Cat Friday - the day of the year by which the average FTSE100 CEO will have earned more than the average annual wage."

Yes I posted this quote on another thread:

"By lunchtime, leading CEOs will have pocketed more than average worker will get for entire year."

The lady in the article is in the same financial position as a full time single mother of two on approximately £70K - £75K with full childcare costs. If someone started a thread that they earn that amount and are struggling because they have to rent an expensive property in the catchment for the reception class of a good school in West London, I can only imagine the outcry.

If all those caring for severely disabled people decided they weren't going to do this anymore the social care system would fall apart.
It doesn't matter if someone else thinks they should be doing it because they don't HAVE to do it.

"How many of you bashing UC claimants on here are paying your childminders and cleaners enough so they dont have to claim UC.

Because im sure you wouldnt be hypocrites."

The level of ignorance, hypocrisy and denial on this thread is shocking!

What I've learned from 16 years in the system in various forms:

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Dwp & tax credits won't tell you honestly and fully what you're eligible for unless you know exactly what you're asking about.

When going for appointments take ALL financial, legal and ID papers and at least 2 copies of each. That way you've got everything they could possibly ask for and don't have to give them originals even for them to copy themselves (too many times vital paperwork has been "lost" even from a reception desk to a photocopier) IF you have to hand anything over get a receipt first with that persons name clearly, legibly written.

Never fill in forms yourself - they're designed to trip claimants up, plus claimants are often too close to the situation to assess accurately and often forget to include things that are seemingly irrelevant but are actually crucial.

Keep detailed records of everything including phone calls. Confirm the content of calls by email wherever possible.

Good MPs are worth their weight in gold. Sadly there's too few of them. Even if you have a shit MP it's amazing how helpful they can be in the run up to an election.

"If you have some savings, are IT literate, literate, have access to a landline, can understand the benefit process well enough to spot mistakes and be educated and confident enough to prepare for a tribunal, are already set up in clothing and household items, have no debt it's possible to live on benefits." I've 2 degrees inc one in English and one medical. Even with that knowledge/training I can't even begin to make head or tail of the disability claims forms!

Done as a separate post for clarity.

Op has 3 DC, earns £26k pa, lives in central London (I've just thought - does this mean op's partner works in govt?), has a partner working full time who earns enough that their income is such they're not eligible for benefits (can an mn maths whizz work out what that would be minumum? I'm going to try with some playing about on calculators as this info is ridiculously not easy to access)

Based on what I was able to roughly work out and op's info.

3 bed flat central London ave rent £2250
Childcare £1000
Council tax seems to be around £500 a year? That seems cheap!

Ok from playing around on entitled to calculator placing youngest child as old enough to not be affected by 2 child limit, I hit £75,000 for op's partners salary (starting at 40,000 and increasing in 5k increments) until I reached a point they wouldn't be eligible for UC.

Mps salary £77,379 - just for info.

That's just a rough idea.

So with a take home income of
£1755 per month for op
£4293 per month for their partner

= £6048 pcm in

• £ 208.43 child benefit (which I'm surprised they'd still be eligible for)

= 6256.43 pcm total income

Estimated outgoings of

£2250 rent
£500 council tax
£1000 childcare
£400 travel costs based on London 7 day travel card age cost
£150 gas & elec apparently ave costs for 3 bed
£40 water
£12.37 tv licence
£650 groceries (ave based on variety of sources)
£25 Internet
£300 clothes & shoes (based on ons percentage)

I think that's all the basic necessities covered.

= £5327.37

Leaving a remainder of £929.06.

"We bring in a total of 40k a year" then how are you not eligible for anything?

Your partner only earns £14k pa?!

Based on that you'd be eligible for child tax credits, child benefit and possibly even housing benefit.

Who told you that you weren't eligible?

I don't know what to believe regarding your finances to be honest.

"Would anyone like to remind me, just for fun, what a member of the House of Lords gets as a daily expenses figure? How is it funded?" Excellent question - they can claim up to £305 A DAY!

"Those who claim sickness through depression and stress, who do get better once they stop work but don't wa t to work again because well work is stressful and depressing and so hope to continue to reçoive sickness benefits even though their daily activities that they are not delibitated by stress or depression."

Was wondering when the mental illness discriminatory post would pop up!

"those who get top tax credits despite getting over £1000 a month child maintenance and therefore manage very well indeed." Child maintenance is not included now on benefits calculations for damn good reasons! Namely that when it was, it was resulting in many Lp families ending up in serious poverty because if you got ONE partial payment the system assumed you were then receiving full and regular payments and deducted from benefits pound for pound.

Very few Lp get high maintenance payments. It's a HUGE problem that so many nrps dodge paying. No system is perfect and personally I think paying benefits to those who do get good maintenance payments is a small price to pay to ensure the MAJORITY of Lp families who don't aren't further impoverished.

But then the mentally ill and single mums are easy targets eh!

"but something had to be done before it became unsustainable with more and more people getting wiser as to use it as a, way to avoid supporting" the facts do NOT bear this out. Benefit fraud even under the "old" system was minimal. Even by govts own stats (and those stats included mistakes made by the dwp where they awarded benefits to those who'd honestly applied and weren't eligible)

Swngofthings your post at 1423 is vile! I'm willing to bet there's no way you'd date admit having that opinion in real life to people caring for seriously disabled loved ones.

Many many carers are caring 24/7 365 days a year. I hope you never need cared for as you'd clearly hold the person caring for you in contempt.

"or a disabled person saying they should be entitled because they can't get out of the house who will later post how they got hard done by having to share the cost of a restaurant meal when they only had a starter."

As for your subsequent posts - load of nonsense! Nobody gets carers allowance for providing minimal care.

Feel free to comb through my posts of the last 12-13 months too. I've barely left my bedroom! I certainly haven't left my home in that time due to serious agoraphobia - partly due to OCD/anxiety but also because my physical disability is worsening and I can't trust my legs but I'm 3 floors up in a block of flats without a lift.

"To put it bluntly - you're talking shite, hen." Heartily seconded!

"Execute those who are unable to work or just surplus to requirements? Of course not." I'm bot entirely convinced that's too far from the truth.

"why would you want to live in a country where people would just starve to death if they couldn’t work enough?" We're already living in a country where this is happening.

Coroners & some (non tory funnily enough) mps fought to get a FOI request answered regarding stats on deaths DIRECTLY related to UC difficulties. The govt worked very hard for months to block this. Eventually a high court judge made it possible.

Iirc the figure was 48,000 since it was first implemented. This is believed to be a conservative number with several organisations involved in supporting claimants thinking over 100,000 more accurate.

But hey - on the plus side (at least for some on this thread) who gives a fuck!

Cos the dead can't complain can they!

My exOH almost died from trying to take his own life as he had stopped his UC claim before uni then 2 years later DWP sprung £600 overpaid benefit debt on him. He never worked, informed them of his change in circumstance and was still entitled to it so wasn’t liable. They didn’t even give him a chance to appeal it just went straight to debt collectors. Horrendous pigs. It won’t be long before it hits the headline that someone has taken their own life due to the failings of DWP and the state of UC

Fullfiorce I am so sorry that happened to him and your family.

Unfortunately I hate to inform you that suicides directly related to UC/welfare reform issues are already iirc numbering in hundreds - and I suspect that's not the true figure.

I think it all mainly down to childcare as to the unemployed being better off. A single parent with 1 child outside of Greater London with no disabilities or job will get £1666 pm. Someone on minimum wage working 40 hours a week will only receive £1,357 pm then will have childcare costs on average of £50 a day so over the month that’s £1,080 roughly. So for the pleasure of leaving your child to work 40 hours a week leaving your child you’re making roughly £277 per month. Yes, you’ll get benefit top ups but when you really look at it. Why would you work? When your income will mainly be made up of benefits anyway and you’re unlikely to be better off. Throw a few more children into the mix, more childcare to pay but more benefits to receive and it becomes a bit of a no brainier.

Childcare should be government subsidised rather than higher benefits per child. I was annoyed to find out childcare is free for 2 year olds if you’re on benefits but not if you’re working. I really did think what is the point. The government doesn’t give a shit about working parents but no one really comments on that, but when anything affects the non-working parents there is uproar.
Yes I know that lots of UC will be working but the majority of people pulling sad faces in the paper are not the working ones.
PIP/ carers/DLA is a whole other story and the way disabled people can be treated is awful. Those with no option to work should not be penalised

I've always been paid monthly and had to deal with that. I can't see why people claiming uc can moan about that. You have to learn to budget.

Candle if you're living hand to mouth, how do you budget? It's not a case of spending frivolously, it's a case of having nothing left over. And if you've always been paid monthly, then you'll always have 4w worth of money at on pay day. Going from weekly to monthly, where are you expected to pull that cash for an extra three weeks from?
And please read up the articles widely available on rent arrears / evictions due to UC. HB has been paid directly, but suddenly a claimant is moved over to UC and there is a 5 week wait for any payment, including rent. Where does the claimant get the rent payments from in that time, considering their income has always been too low to afford it.

The government doesn’t give a shit about working parents but no one really comments on that, but when anything affects the non-working parents there is uproar.
This. I was lucky enough to be able to afford childcare for my two while I work, but a similarly qualified friend who is just a few years behind on the career ladder could not, despite being on twice the median wage, so she had no other option but to stay home and rely on welfare for a couple of years after her marriage ended.
It is also bizarre how childcare cost is not a part of child maintenance in the UK, being the sole responsibility of the resident parent.

Actually I think all political parties focus on families. Families are at the forefront of most domestic policy decisions.
It is those who are single who are usually ignored in policy decisions.

CA is one of the most abused benefit

You're wrong (shock!) and according to the DWPs own figures the most common types of benefit fraud or incorrectly managed claim are:

• people who continue to claim benefits as a single person when they are cohabiting with a partner

• claiming unemployment benefit while working 'off the books'

• continuing to claim benefits after receiving an inheritance/not declaring an inheritance to the DWP

• continuing to claim benefits once your children have left home or education

• moving abroad or to another address without notifying the DWP

Carers Allowance isn't evening the list.

In order to qualify for Carers Allowance you have to be caring for someone in receipt of middle or high rate DLA/PiP, neither of which is easy get awarded and in order to get them awarded it has to be proven that the disabled person needs a lot of support, what support they need, and what happens if they don't get that support. There are set criteria as to what sort of support meets the bar for low, middle, and high. Needing a chat and a your shopping dropping off are unlikely to meet the bar for middle or high.

Once again - you're talking shite, hen.

Carer bashing is a roundabout way of disability bashing. You get the bonus of hitting 2 groups at once.

Youve claimed before. You may claim again. I'd start saving while you can so that when, in the future, you come onto this site to complain about how badly you've been treated by UC, you'll still be able to cover living costs. For a while. As you wait. Remember to keep a bus fare to get to and from the food bank. And see if anyone's left some compassion lying around. You could use it.

Missed a line out of the above.

"Employment benefits have the highest rate of fraud with the following the highest areas of fraud or incorrectly made claim".

Know how much benefit fraud costs? For every £100 spent by the government on benefits, only £1.10 is being claimed fraudulently so despite what anyone here might think there are not millions of people fiddling the system and the overwhelming majority of benefit recipients are genuine. There is also £10 billion of benefits that goes unclaimed each year, mainly because people don't realise they're entitled to certain support, haven't been signposted correctly, or are not able to access services. I'd rather that £1.10 was lost if it means that the remaining 98.9% of claimants are not penalised or dehumanised.

I don't like all these scaremongering stories in the press. I assist people to claim UC and all my clients are coming in totally against Uc from the start, yet many people claim it without difficulty. The minute I mention UC a look of horror comes over my clients faces because of what they have read in the press form these stories. the area where I live went full service for UC in June and the vast majority of the clients we have helped are claiming it without too many problems. We have a high EU immigrant population and some of those are running into problems after failing the habitual residency test and having to rely on food banks etc. The main problem is that people don't understand how it works ( it is my job to explain) and it is quite hard to explain all the details. People are used to one payment of the same amount on tax credits and can't get their head around Uc working in a very different way . I deal with a lot of ill and disabled people and in some respects UC seem to be more efficient at sending out the work capability forms quickly unlike ESA where they waited for months to be assessed. I accept my specific group of clients may be being assessed more quickly because of the nature of their illness ( cancer). the main issues we are having is trying to get the dwp to do home visits to do the initial identity/ verification interviews for people who are too sick to go to go to the job centre.

Candlefloozy - you REALLY need to read much more of this thread and others and articles on UC. That is not people's main complaint about UC at all.

You can't "budget" on nothing!

"It is also bizarre how childcare cost is not a part of child maintenance in the UK, being the sole responsibility of the resident parent." Totally agree! Plus most nrps won't take care of the child when they're sick even on their contact days! It's always the rp has to take time off!

Regarding working parents - the reality is the tories would actually like the mythical 50's setup of nuclear, hetero families with dad working full time, sahm and no benefits to anyone. Except they don't even do anything to facilitate that possibility for the working class. Mainly because they think poverty is a moral failing rather than an accident of birth.

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Most tories are AT LEAST Richard if not even more privileged.

"I'd rather that £1.10 was lost if it means that the remaining 98.9% of claimants are not penalised or dehumanised." Hear hear!