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To wish parents realised that Steiner/Waldord Schools are based on anthroposophy?

145 replies

abacucat · 02/01/2019 19:12

Anthroposphy is a system of belief that believes amongst other things, that people are reincarnated.
The way schools are set up and run is set by this belief system. Everything from the colour of the walls, to the curriculum, to the use of wood and no plastic.
And any schools that are listed as Steiner/Waldorf schools do follow anthroposophy.
If parents are happy with anthroposophy influencing every aspect of the school, then fine.

OP posts:
WhoNose88 · 03/01/2019 20:24

I grew up in a village near a big Steiner school, so we knew quite a few kids from there. They were quite nice, airy fairy, interested in people and in life but I always felt that they didn't really connect with the rest of us, although they were always very polite.

There was at one time a problem with a lack of exam results, especially science/maths, which was affecting the older kids' entry into university - not many did well enough to go. I'm not sure, I think they were trying to do a bit better on that front, not sure if they succeeded.

I'm fairly sure that many of the philosophies espoused by Rudolf Steiner were not taken 100% as gospel by them though, so just reading what he wrote all those years ago doesn't necessarily represent what people think now, in the same way as any religion develops over time.

WhoNose88 · 03/01/2019 20:27

I sent my kids to a Montessori nursery (and primary for a bit) btw, but would never have sent them to a Steiner school, for many reasons.

Dizzywizz · 03/01/2019 20:29

@believeitornot, all early years settings should be child-led in accordance with ofsted

WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 20:30

It's relevant because I'm wondering what experience you have in critiquing educational establishments, whether you have experienced them yourself, what research you have done, whether you have studied them in depth, whether you have visited establishments in different areas/countries etc.

I'm wondering this as some of the things you have said are bullshit incorrect.

WobblyLondoner · 03/01/2019 21:40

Such an interesting thread. We sent our son to a Steiner kindergarten, attracted by a number of the things previous posters have mentioned. We'd never any intention of him continuing there but I still remember how shocked I was at our first parents' evening when his lovely teacher starting talking about children being born to their parents "for a reason", and this reason being related to their previous lives. I started doing a lot more reading then and agree with many of the points made earlier - especially that the philosophical underpinnings of a Steiner education tend to be quite hidden to begin with. My sense is that many parents are attracted by what they see as the broader curriculum and less focus on 'academics' during the early years and some then stay because they find mainstream education and its focus on assessment etc too off putting. I've got lots of gripes with the latter too, but not enough to have kept going with Steiner.

abacucat · 03/01/2019 21:44

WhyDontYou What do you think is incorrect?

OP posts:
Ontheboardwalk · 03/01/2019 21:57

WhyDontYou I’m also interested in finding out what you think is incorrect in the thread?

Based on my personal experience of a close family member, the research I’ve done since and the numerous damning Ofstead reports around safeguarding I don’t see anything incorrect in the thread or abacucat comments

WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 22:01

Many things are incorrect. Plus, I'm a qualified teacher with a first class degree in Primary Education Studies, a PGCE, a Master's in Education and am currently undertaking my PhD in Education. I've researched Steiner settings in depth as part of my training/adademia and I've never come across most of the things described.
I've undertaken placements in various Steiner schools across the globe (as well as other settings such as Montessori, Reggio Emilia etc), DS went to a Steiner kindergarten and four of my close family members were Steiner educated.

But of course, you haven't outlined your experiences, you're just randomly posting on a forum, so... Hmm

abacucat · 03/01/2019 22:07

What specifically is incorrect?

OP posts:
WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 22:08

Why won't you answer my question?

Ontheboardwalk · 03/01/2019 22:09

WhyDontYou I’ve posted my experiences in other threads. Honestly please do tell us what’s incorrect in this thread so we can comment on why we don’t think the same way

Here’s some UK Ofstead reports to read in the meantime.

files.api.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50038861

files.api.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/50042861

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/06/24/rotten-core-flagship-steiner-school-close-emerges-concerned/

abacucat · 03/01/2019 22:09

Because the things I have outlined are all standard anthroposophy. So I don't understand if you have researched it, how you can not have come across it.
I do understand how you could have a child at nursery and not know these things.

OP posts:
abacucat · 03/01/2019 22:12

I won't answer your question because it is irrelevant.

OP posts:
WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 22:12

I have come across it, however things have changed a LOT since the initial schools were set up, the practitioners and their beliefs are completely different and most of the parents are normal people. Of course, there are some batshit people in all walks of life, but it certainly hasn't been my experience.

DS is a normal child. He was reading at 2, uses technology, watches TV etc etc. If they were that batshit, he'd have been asked to leave.

And you still haven't answered my question.

WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 22:13

When you come onto an Internet forum and make false claims as well as repeatedly slate something, your experience and qualifications in what you are talking about is extremely relevant.

MoreNougatThanCougar · 03/01/2019 22:13

I went to a Steiner school I also got expelled from it which most people find incredible

By about 14, all the switched on kids know about anthroposophy and mercilessly rip the piss out of the "anthropops". This doesn't endear them to the staff.

abacucat · 03/01/2019 22:21

Read about the training of Steiner teachers and what they are actually taught, not the pr put out by Steiner/Waldorf Associations internationally.

OP posts:
Ontheboardwalk · 03/01/2019 22:23

whydontyou why didn’t DS continue in the Steiner school past Kindergarten?

WhyDontYouComeOnOver · 03/01/2019 22:26

Boardwalk - because I wanted him in a state primary once he was old enough for the Foundation Phase as I prefer that curriculum.

Ontheboardwalk · 03/01/2019 22:29

MoreNougat the Eurythmy hut got burnt down at my relatives school. They never found the culprits Wink

Eurythmy is closely linked to Anthroposy

Eurythmy is an expressive movement art originated by Rudolf Steiner in conjunction with Marie von Sivers in the early 20th century. Primarily a performance art, it is also used in education, especially in Waldorf schools, and – as part of anthroposophic medicine – for claimed therapeutic purposes.[1][2]

Ontheboardwalk · 03/01/2019 22:34

Dodgy wink does not mean it was me or my relative that burnt down the Eurythmy hut!!

bluebellpillow · 03/01/2019 22:44

Montessori is prescriptive, if you read MM's works she doesn't encourage free or imaginative play, play should serve a purpose. A child pretending to pour a cup of tea for example will have water out in the teapot so that there is a motor skills outcome.

myohmywhatawonderfulday · 03/01/2019 22:48

Abacucat I didn’t know this. Thank you for sharing as I am someone who would have been attracted by a play-based focus. I am glad I know as I would not contemplate it now.

Ribbonsonabox · 03/01/2019 22:56

I'm not sure what kind of people seek out and pay to send their children to a school that didnt at least bother to casually Google?!? Pretty sure 99% of people sending thier kids to Steiner school do know what it's all based on tbh. I looked into the one near us as I do like the idea of them... in the end it wasn't the underpinning beliefs that put me off it was the Ofsted report. Part of my looking into it was reading about Steiner principles... information on which is readily available.

I think the main problem is that sadly theres no real choice... its traditional principles of schooling or Steiner in most places (there are a few other varieties but they are rare so youd be lucky to live near one) So if you want to opt for something less structured for your children you may have to accept some principles you dont agree with. But for me I accept principles I dont agree with when I send my kids to the local state school... so its much of a muchness

SteinerKinder · 03/01/2019 23:06

WhyDontYou I'm on this thread elsewhere but I've changed name to write this. I went to a Steiner school and I can verify this and which one to MNHQ but I won't in PM or on this thread.

I can categorically tell you that teachers in my school did alter how they were when observers were there. Looking back it is somewhat normal I guess, everybody behaves differently when observed. But some teachers definitely toned down the "Steiner" bits more. As kids there was nothing sinister to us in this. We did make fun of those teachers though! So I would be very surprised if you saw exactly how schools were, because many people who observed our classes didn't see the whole story. It wasn't a radical difference, but it was different.

And another thing to keep in mind is that the hardcore teachers in particular have made a personal and emotional commitment to the school and system. They don't teach in it, they live it. These people were SO happy to be observed by observes they perceived as friendly and show how special their life is, how unique and different and better they personally were.

There was such an underlying air of specialness in the school amongst the teachers and imparted to pupils. We were aware that our system was different, that it was (and we were) misunderstood by the rest of the world, and that we were separate to it. In fact, i remember a video a few years ago from a school essentially saying "We're so special we don't have competitive sports, we have sports day based on the original olympics. Now nothing wrong with that, but the emphasis on their specialness made me feel queasy. It's embarrassing to write, but we essentially looked down on people who weren't part of the Steiner system. This included kids joining the school in teenage years who came from "state schools" who watched TV and would drink fizzy drinks regularly.

I also have personal experience of safe guarding not being met. I know of three other cases from when I was at school where the school essentially closed ranks and didn't contact social services when they absolutely, unequivocally should have. Social services were part of the outside world. In some cases an anthroposophical doctor was brought in. But not the outside world people. One of these instances led directly to my friend became very unstable mentally and having to leave school. With no exams. This friend was a A-grade student and always had been in the top of the class.

I related the details of these things I'd witnessed to varying extents to someone a few months ago. They'd suffered trauma as a child (and were wanting to put their child in a Steiner school) and were totally triggered by what I'd said. I'd never spoken about the incidents all together before and to be honest it took me a few days to recover from it. As a mother, it's utterly shocking.

And what is hard to stomach about the whole Steiner thing is that everybody who works there appears to be so caring about the individual child's development. They really care. They appear so empathic. And some of them do care and are empathic. Often they're the ones who are not totally Steiner. The hardcore Steiner teachers though were the ones who - looking back, I never realised at the time - also had this uncaring, hard side. I'm not saying they didn't pander to us, that's fine and normal, but the attitude they gave the parents was slightly different to the one they gave us. The only time parents seemed to view it was - and this I found out years later - when there had been a big problem and the parents were talking about removing their child. The people who had a proper life outside the school and anthroposophy system, who watched TV etc, were attracted to the school because of the child-centred aspect of it. They therefore didn't put their religion/believe in Rudolf Steiner's system above their humanity.

For my own DC I would have LOVED a school that had a similar curriculum to Steiner, but was fully integrated with safeguarding standards and systems of mainstream schools. And with no pseudo-science or religious crap. I think the system is brilliant for kids today in terms of the arts and crafts and music (including eurythmy even though I usually hated doing that!) as a lot of it is good for brain regulation in similar ways to mindfulness techniques that are becoming more researched. It adds quiet to an otherwise stressed and noisy life out kids have. I love that we learned geometry in maths main lessons (muscular morning lessons lasting 2-4 weeks) by drawing and colouring and making shapes. I love that we learned our times tables rhythmically. There is a pedagogical creativity that could well be applied to all children.

But nothing is worth putting my kid in a school where I can't be sure that they're fully safe, including not being blamed for academic failing or being the victim (or perpetrator) of bullying.

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