To take a lunch break I'm not entitled to ?

[Vanillamanilla1]

I work in the leisure industry, I'm new there , think a little short of 2 months
It's the only job I could get at the time as I left previous job on the spur of the moment but I am looking at other jobs and I applied for loads and loads , this Came up
I get paid literally minimum wage , last night was very busy so didn't get a break , which is ok but I was lead to believe in extreme circumstances of busyness I would be paid
This turns out be untrue , if I don't take it I lose it , found this out from another manager last night
Now , we get 1/2 hour to close down. Last night it just never happened..I stayed unpaid for over an hour on top of the 1/2 hour allowance and had no break so realistically they owe me 2 hours ... We HAD to finish the job
I didn't realise this either but it's a case of " well we can't leave it for the person in the morning it's unfair '
I feel like shit and got a cold coming , doing a smallish shift where I'm.not entitled to a break
However the shift leader I'm working with is very very hot on clicking out for cigarette breaks ( I don't smoke ) or making phones calls which I have done previously as I've got a latch key kid and want to make sure she's home safe
I feel rubbish but know I will struggle a little towards the end of the shift but would like 1/2 hour just to take medication, perhaps have something quick to eat it or drink
I know she will make me " clock out " so it's unpaid but to be fair the company owe me nearly 2 hours from last night unpaid as well as other shifts where it's too busy to take a break
Would it be UR for me to say " actually no I won't be clocking out , I'm taking some unpaid time back " of course this won't be at the expense of the business needs and won't make the others work harder I anticipate it being a quiet day
I never once complain about staying the extra 15-20 minutes unpaid or the breaks I've missed but equally I don't feel well and just know I'll struggle a little later
I won't not go in , I feel feverish but wouldn't see this as excuse to bunk off work ,
How would you handle todays situation , she doesn't really like me so I can see this escalate a little of my refusal to clock out

YANBU. What they are doing is illegal! You are entitled to a break.

Hopefully someone will be along with the relevant act. Show it your manager and insist on a paid break.

Good luck finding another job. Is this one zero hours?

Just be up front when you go in. Ask if you will get paid for the 2 hours or should you take it as time back. If they neither then I'd go home sick 2 hours before the end of the shift. You are unwell anyway and clearly doing your best not to inconvenience them.

Here’s the legals:

If you work 6 hours or more you are entitled to a 20 minute unpaid break. This cannot be taken at the end of work. (Working time directive)

If you are paid minimum wage you must be paid for all of the time you are working, minus breaks. You cannot work an extra 2 hours at the end of a shift for free as this would mean your average earnings for the tome worked are below NMW.

They can sack you for any non-discriminatory reason in your first 24 months of employment and you will not be able to claim unfair dismissal.

How long is your shift?

If it's less than 6 hours you are not entitled to a break

If it's over 6 hours then it's 20 minutes uninterrupted break

When you are staying on, do you clock out and then go back and finish off?

What they are doing is illegal!

Unlawful, not illegal. You can’t be arrested for it.

To answer a few questions
This shift is 15 minutes shy of 6 hours today so I won't be entitled to a break
However most of my shifts are 4pm- 5pm close ...ie, the closing time is at 11.30am , however the customers have 1/2 hour in which to vacate , thus the 1/2 on top of the close
So for instance 11.30pm on a 11pm close
This can often run over depending on what time of year it is , think Christmas and Nye celebration
I literally finished at 2.40am when I should have finished at 1.30am ( 1 am close 1/2 hour shut down )
We have to clock out 1/2 hour after the close regardless of whether or not we finish , it doesn't run over too much but lately it has, due to clearing away mess and the customers still celebrating festivities ..there no massive " rush" on management to end it ..they kind of trickle off.. so I started at 6pm last night , will be paid for 1.30am but didn't leave until 2.30-2.40am with no break
It's not zero hours but think single figures
I am.loooking elsewhere but it's really difficult at the moment
I feel used a little , and wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of me after the probationary period when ALL that industry goes very quiet until about march time
I've been told no to expect much more than my contract hours between now and march ish

We have to clock out 1/2 hour after the close regardless of whether or not we finish

They can’t make you do that and are in breach of NMW legislation in doing so.

But be prepared to get your P45 if you push it.

That's what I was thinking poutysprout . It's a tough one , I don't want to seen as a push over but on a day when I'm feeling just a little bit vulnerable, just wanted some understanding
Personally this particular shift leader doesn't like me for whatever reason and I can see trouble brewing if I dare mention small bit of time to collect myself

You’re being given good advice, give acas a phone. They’re great for advising what to say.

You need a copy of your contract. If you are contracted to X amount of hours with an X amount of unpaid break. You are owed time.
In my job we often have shortened lunches as we run over into breaks and start back an hour later so you can extend a break.
I work 9 hours a day with an hour break so onky get paid for 8. I do get paid overtime if I ask for a shortened ljnh break to be paid for. But otherwise we write down time owed to us and take it as and when we can.

Only work for what you get paid for. No more no less.

When you say leisure do you mean hospitality?

Your shifts sound very similar to those I did for a big name restaurant, the only difference was we got paid until we clocked out.

We never had set breaks, there was always opportunity once the rush was over to sit for 5/10 minutes and grab a bite to eat though. As long as no one took the piss it was fine.

I wonder whetehr your manager is being leaned on from above over staff costs, hence the requirement to clock out while you're still working.

I would suggest you try to find another minimum wage job, you haven't got much to lose.

You need a copy of your contract. If you are contracted to X amount of hours with an X amount of unpaid break. You are owed time.

No. No. No. No. No.

(This is why I wince when people post in AIBU and not Employment Issues.)

They make you clock out then carry on working? That's dodgy as fuck

Well, they sound like a shitty, exploitative bunch. To be honest, if you ask for your breaks/your contract, or for them to pay you for extra hours, they will simply decide you are 'unsatisfactory' and sack you. That's what employers like this do, as they believe that staff are interchangeable monkeys and there will always be another mug desperate for work.

However, if they do dismiss you for asking for a statutory right like breaks or NMW (or could show that you could reasonably assume that was the reason) you could sue for unlawful dismissal. Not a stress free process, but also not taking it lying down.

record all time you have done unpaid as extra if/when they sack you - inform the inland revenue & go after acas or whatever for constructive dismissal - the inland revenue are very hot on this kind of thing

go after acas or whatever for constructive dismissal

Wouldn’t be entitled. (See above posts.)

I wonder if you work for the organisation I used to. I heard managers were making staff clock out when that’s not company policy or law but staff were unsure of the rules so assumed it was legitimate.

If it is then it’s managers fixing hours to make their end of year profits better which results in a better bonus

PoutySprout - could still get them investigated for paying below minimum wage. I'm sure there are a lot of companies breaking the law by not allowing breaks, having people stay behind unpaid and so on meaning pay goes below the minimum wage.

Agreed. But wouldn’t be any benefit for the OP of that. And there would need to be some record of it provided.

I used to work for a care home we had to arrive atleast 15 min before shift and would leave sometimes 30 min late we were not allowed to leave unless everyone was up and dressed and we had done hand over it was 11 hours officially we had a hours break usually interrupted. We had to prepare all the veg, mop floors and clean wheelchairs and do laundry. There was only two of us.

The problem is they treat everyone like this and they get away with it as night shift I made 20p more than minimum wage. It was a shit job so we left. I doubt you can do anything besides report them, continue looking for work and keep your head down.

Keep a record of everything, what has been said when dates and when they make you stay etc.

I worked for a popular high street bakery chain who were like this. Had to be in 15 mins before the official start of your shift unpaid! I wish I had the balls to have challenged them but didn't, like previous posters have said please fight them for the time you are owed but expect to be looking for another job. It's sad that has to be said! Let us know what happens...