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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think they should still be paid their overtime?

25 replies

Hopskipjumping · 30/12/2018 20:50

Some employees in my work are paid hourly some monthly. The hourly employees work Monday to Friday and then sometimes overtime at the weekend.

My boss was kicking off when one of the employees was sick and said they wouldn’t be paid their overtime as they were sick and paid.

Is this right?

OP posts:

brighteyeowl17 · 30/12/2018 20:51

Surely you don’t get OT pay when off sick?

Nenic · 30/12/2018 20:52

I wouldn’t expect to be paid if I was meant to be doing overtime and was sick.

dementedpixie · 30/12/2018 20:53

You would get the basic pay but not the overtime surely

Original poster

Hopskipjumping · 30/12/2018 20:53

Say they were off Monday but worked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and then over time on Saturday. He didn’t want to pay the Saturday overtime.

OP posts:

OrdinarySnowflake · 30/12/2018 20:54

You get paid your basic if you are off sick. Overtime is extra pay for doing extra hours, if you don't do extra hours, you don't get paid for them.

It's shit when so many companies just make overtime be effectively regular hours without changing contracts to reflect that.

SoyDora · 30/12/2018 20:54

If they worked it they should be paid for it.

dementedpixie · 30/12/2018 20:55

Yes they should get the overtime pay for Saturday then and either sick pay or no pay for Monday (depending if employer pays sick pay or just pays statutory)

poppoppop100 · 30/12/2018 20:55

Your employer is wrong in law.

OrdinarySnowflake · 30/12/2018 20:55

Oh sorry, I see.

Monday was a sick day, so paid as per the contract.

Saturday was overtime, it wasn't making up time for the sick leave.

leghairdontcare · 30/12/2018 20:55

Do they get sick pay? Our office has a rule that you only get paid overtime of you work over 37 hours in the week, which sick leave wouldn't count towards.

RebootYourEngine · 30/12/2018 20:55

They should only get paid for 5 days because they only worked 5 days. You could say that it wasn't overtime it was making up lost hours.

DeadBod · 30/12/2018 20:56

In your above example, the overtime should have been paid for the Saturday.

Pinkstars2501 · 30/12/2018 20:57

This happens in my work, it’s in our contract.

leghairdontcare · 30/12/2018 20:58

And I should clarify I mean paid the overtime rate (x1.5 hrs).

namechangedtoday15 · 30/12/2018 20:58

It depends on contract wording. Ordinarily, it will say F/T hours are say 40 hours and anything worked above that is overtime. If hes been off and worked 40hrs including Saturday, he'll just get his normal wage as he hasn't worked any hours above 40.

InAPreviousLife · 30/12/2018 21:01

If they had sick pay then overtime is as normal because their sick hours have been logged (and used against them for absence management reasons).

They aren't making time back, they are genuinely working above their hours.

The only way this could be excused is if sick leave wasn't paid and the employee had to make up the hours for the week.

Lougle · 30/12/2018 21:03

It depends on the contract. Most contracts would say that you get paid plain time for any hours up to full time hours (which for most companies, would be 37.5 hours) in any one week, and then 'overtime' after that. Therefore, part-time workers, for example, on 20 hour contracts, would have to do 18 hours or more overtime before they would get 'overtime' , because the first 17.5 hours would just bring them up to full-time hours. In that situation, then the boss would be right to say that the employee hadn't worked over 37.5 hours (or equivalent) and therefore the hours worked were plain time, imo, even if he also got sick pay to make up for the missed day.

I work in a rare work place the pays an enhanced rate for any hours worked in excess of contract, whether part-time or full-time, due to the niche role, so in that situation, I'd expect to either be paid the enhanced rate, or have my offer of overtime on the Saturday declined on the basis of my sickness on the Monday. I wouldn't accept plain time on the Saturday.

lily2403 · 30/12/2018 21:06

Yes should be paid the overtime, they worked the Saturday therefore should be paid the going rate

Schmoobarb · 30/12/2018 21:09

Is the overtime at basic pay or enhanced?

They’re entitled to receive at least the national minimum wage but they might not be entitled to enhanced pay. It’s extremely common for employers to have overtime policies which say you have to work 35/40 hours or whatever a full working week is before overtime can be paid. They deserve to be paid for the work but it’s taking the rip to expect enhanced pay for “overtime” when you’ve not bloody worked your basic hours!

Augusta2012 · 30/12/2018 21:13

Well if she wasn’t in on Monday, she hasn’t worked overtime has she? If she has contractual sick pay from day 1 of her illness, she would be entitled to six full days pay. But she wouldn’t actually have worked extra hours so she wouldn’t get the overtime component of her pay.

If her employer only offers SSP, that doesn’t kick in until after a few days, so she would be entitled to nothing for Monday and just her normal pay for the other 5 days with no overtime element.

It sounds like the latter and if so her employers are right.

I think she should tread carefully if she values her job. Single day absences on Mondays are regarded very, very dimly by employers and at this time of year x100 which is probably why her supervisor is pissed off. If there is any other wider pattern of one or two absences falling after weekends or around festive periods then she’s going to end up being performance managed around her absences PDQ.

brighteyeowl17 · 30/12/2018 21:29

Oh ok..surely if Saturday is only OT then can only be paid as OT? Not ‘making up’?!

Aridane · 30/12/2018 21:29

Depends whether it's overtime (in which case, no pay) or a weighted pay for working Sarpturdsy (in which case pay at the enhanced rate)

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 30/12/2018 21:53

My overtime rate starts after 8 hours per day, because that's the industry norm. Attempts were made to introduce weekly overtime, but the driver shortage put paid to that. In the scenario the OP has posted, I would expect to be paid 32 hours at basic rate, plus 8 hours at the Saturday rate. The boss could probably get away with it the first time, but he might have to have his car resprayed a lot of he makes a habit of it.

Lougle · 31/12/2018 00:46

There's a difference between "overtime" and a "Saturday rate", "Sunday rate" or Bank Holiday rate", though.

If there was a "Saturday rate", it would be right for the employee to be paid Saturday rate if they were working on Saturday. Even if they had been off sick on the Monday, it would be wrong to treat the Saturday as a weekday and deny them the enhanced weekend rate of pay. However, that's not the same as saying 'overtime is given when your weekly worked hours exceed your weekly contracted hours, and your weekly worked hours have not exceeded your weekly contracted hours this week because you were off sick on Monday, so the work that would have been paid as overtime on Saturday will in fact be paid as plain time."

In that situation, if the employee was entitled to company sick pay, they would still be receiving more money than usual, because they'd get their day's pay for the sick day and the day's pay for the extra day of work, but they would not get the benefit of the "overtime rate" that they would normally get.

Tigger365 · 31/12/2018 00:57

In my place of work, we work 7 days on a rota system. So if I have Monday off unpaid, I cannot be paid OT at anything over my normal hourly rate for that week.
I suspect it’s meant to discourage having a day off in the week and working a weekend day to earn more.

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