To ask advice about a zero hours contract

[VeepVeep]

I'm a long-time self-employed/sole trader/freelancer. Coming up to 25 years.

Recently taken on a new client. In advance of some work in Jan, they've sent me a zero hours contract. Initially, I was okay with it - I just thought it would mean no-rights etc. But looking at the terms, they've a) broken my daily fee down into hours (fine) b) will be deducting income tax and national insurance in respect of hours worked in the preceding month.

I've never had my tax/NI taken at source.

Is this a given with these contracts?

Can I get around it anyway? I've already negotiated my fee, and I know i'll end up with even less if I go this route.

@ohlittletown0f Zero hour contracts are no better apart from holiday pay.

NextIssue - if you work for one company, you're better off as an employee. If you work for multiple companies you're better off freelance. That's how it works. The problem is companies who treat their workers literally as freelancers when they are only working for them.

OP has a different problem, though.

So, what about if I became a limited company? Would that side-step this issue? Anyone know?

I've looked at the HMRC criteria - I def fit the bill of a self-employed person, down to bringing in my own laptop!

And working from my own office almost all the time (except onboarding stuff and meetings)

Yeah, I agree, IR35. Employers are under heavy pressure to not contract out regular workers (have to put them on payroll).

@mnxnt42 - has your company accepted freelancers with limited companies as an option?

Sorry not rtft but HMRC set new rules called IR35 to stop employers avoiding not paying ERS NI (and to an ectrebt Ees NI too). So if you are a single self employed person doing a job that could be feasibly done by someone they employ ie on their site using their equipment and it's just you or you don't employ other people and could send anyone to do this work then they have to pay you via payroll and deduct tax and NI but you are not employed so don't get employment rights.

We have this a lot at work and so many of our contractors now have to be paid this way as the risk of fines is too much for us to bare.

Thanks all - I will look carefully into this and speak to client.

Sounds like a misunderstanding. If you're a freelancer of 25 years, with multiple established clients, then you'd be expecting a freelance contract. Just explain that you're not happy to accept the contract as it stands and suggest amendments to a self employment basis. If you go on the payroll, you become an employee, which means they can boss you about in a way they can't as a freelancer (dictate your hours etc).

I employ locums on and off over the last15 years. It has become increasingly difficult for them to be self employed under IR35. To the point that we now employ them even if it is only for a few days. The stick issue of IR35 is that they can not send someone else instead of themselves. I have managed to remain self employed as I send employees or locums instead of myself to clients.

Thank you all. So helpful. It gives me a chance to go in armed with the right questions.

VeepVeep I've always found HMRC to be very helpful with advice, you could talk to them to be sure. But it sounds to me as if you are truly a self-employed person. I'm registered as a sole trader personally. I work from home, use my own IT and software, my own car. I do the work when I want to and my SLA says that I will make reasonable attempts to get someone to cover me if I can't carry out the work for any reason.