To not leave my kids with SIL & BIL over a photo album?

[EightWellies]

This may be unbelievable petty. I'm looking for some perspective. SIL and BIL are generally not very keen on me, but are on DW (sister to BIL) and our two DDs (6 & 2). I'm not keen on them either, but love their 3 DDs, who are a good bit older, to bits. I've overheard SIL a few times saying mildly derogatory things about me in front of DD1.

They gave DD1 a photo album for Christmas, filled with photos of a trip with extended family, which we were all on. I am not in it. Dozens of pics of everyone else on the holiday and I'm not in it at all. I know SIL took pics with me in them.

We're supposed to be swapping kids tomorrow, so that we can take their girls to spend their vouchers. I don't want to leave our girls with them, as I feel completely undermined. I'd rather just stay at home with our girls and let DW take our nieces to the shops.

Leaving them would be a big deal. Both our girls are adopted and this 3 hours or so would be the longest we've left DD2. DD1 has SEN (unacknowledged by them), very sensitive and is always hard to handle after she's been at their house.

I'm feeling like I don't want to expose them to people who dislike me so blatantly, but DD1 does seem to like being there at the time and I don't want to punish her or my nieces. AIBU to keep them home?

I think the most relevant thing here is that your kids are adopted and your oldest has an attachment disorder. That’s what makes their behaviour a problem.

Maybe post in the adoption section? Loads of good posters there who will give you great advice on how to handle this, but they will miss this post because the title only mentions a photo album.

On the other hand, they sound wonderfully accepting and supportive of the relationship and adoption.

I do think it's the job of your DW to now educate them on attachment disorders and the needs of your DDs.

This sounds like a brilliant relationship that is being fostered between both families.

You should do all that you can to keep this going.

Posters on MN generally aren't as supportive of wider family relations, it's all about Parent and Child, but your girls deserve and need a whole extended family.

People aren't perfect, we all get things wrong occasionally.

Thanks to the people with an ASN perspective. That is my biggest concern - how their attitude towards me impacts on DD1 in particular.

I'm hearing everyone else though. They are kind to them, but that doesn't mean they 'get' them.

If its attachment related then no, you're absolutely NBU. What would be relatively minor in a securely attached child is very significant for your DD, you're not being unreasonable at all. You have knowledge SIL and BIL don't and the impact could be high.

🤦‍♀️ Sorry missed that

with attachment disorder update your wife reallllly does need to have a proper chat with them as ultimately it’s jeopardising loving relationships that are great for both your family and theirs.

As a fellow adopter I wouldn’t be sending them either. It’s a whole different ball game when you factor in attachment disorder/difficulties, our kids have enough to deal with every day in relation to boundaries and relationships without having to deal with a manipulative adult putting things in their head about you.

The lack of acceptance re SEN is also an issue, the smallest of things can trigger my son and he remembers everything, even more so if it’s causing him anxiety (someone undermining me and what I tell him/boundaries I put in place would be a massive trigger for him).

You know your kids best, go with your gut on this - what’s best for our kids isn’t always what the outside world sees as best it’s whatever allows them to feel safe and secure and confirms the trust they have for you and your wife x x x

I wouldn't allow it. Their behaviour is totally disrespectful and I'd put my foot down so they could see that it's unacceptable and they can't get away with it. I'm shocked that your wife isn't supporting you too

Another fellow adopter who also wouldn't be sending them for all the reasons others have said.

My in-laws have a big photo montage of all the family prominently on display that includes everyone else except me. I couldn't give two shits. Let them be the petty sods they are. I'd let the photo album pass without a comment, but I wouldn't let them take your DC tomorrow for the more important reasons you've described. Don't let them set the agenda, they've proved they're too insensitive. Your DP should support you on what's the best thing for your children and never mind what the in-laws think because the album proves they don't care about your feelings.

Hearing this from others is so helpful. It's made me realise how much the attachment issues are a factor in my thinking. I'm so used to making day to day adjustments that I hadn't separated out the significance.

Chipping in my tuppence worth.

Separate out your issues with the BIL and SIL and deal with that separately. I'd not conflate the two. In that context, I'd let the kids go on the trip but then deal with the underlying issue at a later point.

I’d feel very insulted to be excluded from a family album being gifted to my own daughter. How fucking rude. I’d be uneasy about them too OP because that’s pretty nasty.

What does your wife say about it all? My DH would’ve spoken to them about the way they treated me/leaving me out of the album etc if I was upset by it.

A lot of problems on mumsnet recently have been caused by one person in a couple ignoring or brushing the feelings of the other under the carpet, to either ‘not cause a fuss’ or to not upset someone else in the family (usually a female relative!).

My wife acknowledges that they don't particularly like me and thinks they shouldn't have excluded me. However, she is very much of the 'don't make a fuss' school of thought and thinks that I'm too sensitive and am looking for problems. I would see it more as a pattern of behaviour.

Their disregard of your DD’s needs is worrying and the photo album thing is very wrong. You are working hard to build the family attachment and they send an album which effectively writes you out of the family? That’s outrageous.

I would ask your wife to return the album and explain very firmly that the album needs to reflect all of you as a family. And if they don’t understand the issues of parenting adopted children then they really have to get onboard if they want to be active in their lives.

Obviously I would also not be leaving the dc with them tomorrow. They can get onboard with the whole thing or have a low level of contact in settings that don’t undermine all you are achieving.

I wouldn’t leave them there.

Photo album and ‘digs’ aside, this needs to be about your DD’s and what THEY need and personally, I don’t think that is being left for 3 hours with people who really don’t ‘get’ them. It’s too much and too long.

Is it a pre-printed album, or an 'old fashioned' one with photos inserted?

If old type, then the first thing I'd be doing is swapping some of the pictures.

There are a few issues here:

1. They are being passive aggressive if they left you out of the album on purpose (which it sounds like they did). Passive aggressive interactions hinge on you not speaking up. So I would say ‘I’m upset that I wasn’t included in the photo album, why was that?’ If It was accidental I would expect an apology. At the least you are bringing it to their attention that leaving you out is not ok.

1. They are critical of you in front of DD. I would phrase it like this: ‘it’s important for the girls to feel safe and have boundaries. This is what DW and I have decided’. If you hear them saying something then you could say ‘did you say something?’ This is not meant to be agressive and should be delivered in a neutral tone and normal volume. With passive aggressive people you either need to take what they say at face value or challenge them. If they continue to insist they don’t have a problem take them at face value.

As an aside, I hope your approach is authoritative rather than authoritarian ie. non punitive. I might challenge someone I was close too if I felt they were being ‘too strict’ if that meant mean or unkind. (I don’t know what this refers to).

1. They don’t acknowledge your DD’s needs. Are they willing to learn? If she has attachment issues then those should take precedence over what they feel appropriate. Compromises could be you all going out together or as per your suggestion. If you know more about her requirements than them then please do stand up for her; she needs it.

1. Communication issues with your DW; perhaps she prefers not to ‘rock the boat’. Does any of this feed into her/your family history of keeping quiet or ‘going along with things’?

Many people struggle in dysfunctional relationships (and where people are not communicating directly, expressing themselves and their need and able to disagree without being ‘punished’ it is dysfunctional. And many people are so used to this that they don’t see any harm in it. It is harmful and if you hang around in the stately homes threads you will see that this type of ‘covert’ dysfunction has repercussions and causes damage.

I would be trying to ‘nip this in the bud’. If you keep taking it may escalate and you may end up being gaslighted and/or scapegoated. It may not be this serious but if it isn’t I would expect an apology and a ‘how can we work this out’ type conversation. That’s what happens in healthy adult relationships free of threats and punishments.

It is also your prerogative as to how much time you spend with people who treat you like this.

My DD has additional needs and is also adopted. She benefitted/benefits from consistency, strong routines/boundaries and the fact that she had ample time to develop her trust in me/test me and grow faith in me. Undermining people were nixed pretty quickly.

My MIL doesn’t like me but wanted immediate alone time with DD when we adopted at a year old (absolutely didn’t happen) she thinks I’m too strict etc too. MIL tried saying mean things about me to my DD e.g “ oh isn’t your mummy silly, mean, unkind. Don’t listen to her” . Guess who has never had alone time with DD, and whom DD doesn’t like.

You know your child best. I can guarantee they are not getting as much benefit from hanging out with people who don’t recognise their SENS, or speak umkindly about you, as others might try to tell you.

You DW needs to back you up, tell her family to stop acting so horribly to the mother of her children because it does harm their development.
Stay home and make memories, these people should not have any more time teaching your children it’s ok to be mean to you, that it must be true as you are not standing up against this bad behaviour.

Good luck and sorry you have had to put up with this horrible behaviour.

Voodoo examples would be, our girls are not allowed to jump on MIL's furniture and do rough and tumble play in her living room. In part because we just don't think it's appropriate, but also because DD1 gets very worked up and it never ends well. We would only let DD1 have one cup of juice and then it would be milk or water. She has toileting issues and her medical issues make tooth decay more likely.

Eightwellies; sounds reasonable to me.

I agree with Sugarplumlairy.