To think rationing should be brought back?

[Tortycat]

Lots of threads about Christmas over consumption at the moment, both food and present wise. People either feeling guilty about buying too much or financially feeling the strain. Climate change seems to be at near catastrophe levels and we have to stop consuming to have a chance - plastic, palm oil, meat etc.

So how about bringing back rationing? A definate limit in what you can 'consume ' ie clothes, food, stuff, airmiles. fuel etc. Ok I'm aware there may be economic problems, but hurtling towards environmental catastrophe just to keep people in jobs seems insane. Think of the plus points - no fast fashion, no 'keeping up with the Jones's, no having to keep buying things, more trade and jobs in repairing things, less waste etc. Its so easy to keep buying things. I 'need' new clothes, new bathroom suite etc, but i dont really. If everyone had to cut back it would be so mu ch easier. The excess and consumerism of xmas have depressed me and adverts are still on imploring us to buy more. Drastic times call for drastic measures??

What a stupid post.. p.s do you have idea of the scale of pollution caused by China? Where’s the outrage about that??

Well this seems to be the subject of today's lead article in the telegraph. Apparently there are plans to limit the number of calories in ready meals and restaurant meals.

FWIW I think it's a great way to put local restaurants out of business and to promote restaurant chains. And for ready meal makers to make a lot more money, whilst increasing the waste packaging in the process.

So because people can't be sensible and control their spending at Christmas or with food, everyone else should be rationed?

That's the main problem. We look at the worst cases and then impose shit on everyone else to fix these worst cases

You afe looking at it wrong. We don't need rationing to help our planet. We need less people.

#Thanoswasright

"Also due to the Sun’s lifecycle it is literally going to explode one day, and nothing can be done to stop that."

It's unlikely the human race will all be around by the time that happens. While the effects of climate change and environmental damage are already being felt.

Thatmustbenigel if you ration petrol, how do you expect anyone in rural areas to survive? Should we be using pony & trap again?

FWIW I think the suggestion of limiting calories in ready meals & restaurants is utterly stupid. Apparently it's to help to stop child obesity. Don't think restaurants & ready meals are the issue.

Oh dear I don't think though that a lot of people realise that if we cut back now. It will be less painful and cost us less then if we wait. Economic forecasts have shown that smaller cut backs now could make a big difference or we leave our children to.live in poverty with the consequence.

Unfortunately no government espicaly the USA seems to be willing to pay for these changes now. So we will have the pain of it in years to come.

When buying something biggish, luxury or sometimes clothing I think, do I need it? Do I want it? Can I afford it? Obviously I don't think like that with food or I'd spend the whole day in the supermarket dithering.

I always wonder at OPs like this. When I see mumsnetters suggesting ultra strict rules for things or even banning something. What they mean is within the parameters of what they personally consider to be acceptable.

How would this be even workable practically speaking? I guess we could ask North Korea for advice.

I don’t think I want my choices to be curtailed by the fact that some people can’t control their spending. And it would merely create a thriving black market.

What would be more successful would be an import tax.

Don't we have this already in the form of import VAT?

the suggestion of limiting calories in ready meals & restaurants is utterly stupid

I agree with this. With ready meals, it would just mean people would buy the 'serves 2' version for one person, or the 'serves 4' for two if they wanted a larger meal. In restaurants, they'd get round it by making calorie-heavy things like chips and sauces a separate item on the menu.

And it would merely create a thriving black market.

Indeed. Just what we need criminals flogging food without it being subject to health and safety standards. Or have you seen the videos circulating this year on social media where people are fighting over the shops being closed for one day?

Can't see what could possibly go wrong there.

That'll improve our health as a nation.

Nothing wrong with me, voted remain and would do again given half a chance, and no i haven't lived through rationing myself but my mum remembers it in the war.

I do curb my own consumerism - a lot of gifts second hand or consumables/ experiences this Xmas and don't think we spent wildly (about £500 in total for immediate and extended family inc a birthday, certainly within what we can afford).

ok maybe some flippancy in my op (after a few glasses of cava). I certainly dont want the poorest in society to suffer, and may be economically naive, but when there are millions of environmental refugees and water/ food shortages the poor will also suffer. i worry that leaving it up to individuals will be leaving it too late. People may be coming round to the idea of change but that is far too slow when the situation has to be reversed in 12 years. Individuals (inc myself) are very good at thinking short term (i fancy a new dress) over long term (my grandchildren may not get to grow up). i do think governments on occasion should step in. Happy to have flaws in my thinking pointed out, but would be happier to hear alternative solutions that dont rely on individuals making better decisions without external prompting, as i think that will just be too slow...

midnightscribbler where do you live? Iceland??

appy to have flaws in my thinking pointed out, but would be happier to hear alternative solutions that dont rely on individuals making better decisions without external prompting, as i think that will just be too slow...

You need to own white goods and be able to afford electricity / gas and have the knowledge of how to cook with what ingredients.

Parents who cook are much more likely to pass the skills on to their children.

Lifestyle comes into it too. People who work long or unsociable hours or are cooking for just one or two mouths are less likely to cook too.

Rationing is a 'quick fix' which would not produce the desired effect.

The problem goes much deeper and is much more embedded in wider social problems.

It always comes back to it being true that obesity being far more common in areas of high poverty than areas which are much more affluent.

Thus rationing to solve that problem utterly and completely misses the point.

#Thanoswasright

Love this.

Rationing will do nothing but starve more people. It won't help the planet. You're still looking at the wrong end of the chain.

YABU because the politicians and their kind would get around it, they’d have a clause that if you really want more than your ration you can pay vast amounts of money and have it anyway.

midnightscribbler where do you live? Iceland??

A small island in the Pacific.

if you ration petrol, how do you expect anyone in rural areas to survive? Should we be using pony & trap again?

When we ran out of petrol due to the ships not being able to anchor for several months, people did in fact ride their horses when they needed to get anywhere.

Did you really think rationing worked in WW2? There was a giant black market in smuggled goods and dodgy farmers.
The only way to consume less is for everyone to be dirt poor. And that's not going to happen unless there is a disaster.
The elites have it all planned out once they get robot slavery working.

One country can't do this alone as we are affected by global events and enmeshed in global systems.

We need a massive social, economic, and environmental revision of how we are living. The political will for this is negligible: the need for it is urgent.

Rationing will go down well with the people visiting foodbanks and living week to week.

bubonicplague i completely agree. Just dont know what will facilitate that. New Year coming with yet more adverts urging us to keep consuming and it feels so dispiriting.

midnightscribbler sounds rather idyllic where you are! well until climate change kicks in and islands become submerged (not being sarcy - sadly its clear places that do least to cause the damage will suffer most).

That is certainly an interesting thought experiment.

Also due to the Sun’s lifecycle it is literally going to explode one day, and nothing can be done to stop that.

Do you realise that is around 4 million years away. Climate change disasters are 12 years away!

Also due to the Sun’s lifecycle it is literally going to explode one day, and nothing can be done to stop that.

Do you realise that is around 4 million years away.

You are a little bit out, it's 5 billion years before the sun is expected to turn into a red giant and reach the earth.

I believe rationing was brought in initially because although there was enough food to go round if people were sensible, what was happening was that the rich people were buying too much, then going to the poorer areas and buying the stuff at inflated prices that the poorer people couldn't afford.

I suspect if rationing was brought in then that would just produce that again. There's be a thriving black market, plus online abroad ordering would make it very difficult to police. Can you imagine on ebay? "I'm selling these empty boxes wink wink..."

Do you realise that is around 4 million years away. Climate change disasters are 12 years away!
Climate change disasters have already occurred in some places.
But I remember in about 1987/88 there being discussions along the lines of by 2010 most of England would be underwater due to rising temperatures causing rising seas. I know our area was meant to be totally flooded and some of my friends being totally devastated. As you've probably noticed, that hasn't happened.

It's the thought process that needs to be changed. I need this so I have to have it. New.

I've always bought a lot second hand. And I sew and mend things. But when new is cheaper than mending or sewing, I have to ask myself is it worth it?

Things like cars. My df has a 1980s car. If it goes wrong, he can go into the engine and replace the part.
He also has a 2015 car now as the 1980s one is a little unreliable for long journeys. Even something simple often needs taking to the garage because it needs specialist tools to get into the part. Sometimes they're sealed units so the whole thing has to be replaced because one little thing has gone wrong. It's cheaper to replace the whole unit than spend a couple of hours unscrewing it and replacing, so they are made not to replace the smaller bit.

Sometimes they're sealed units so the whole thing has to be replaced because one little thing has gone wrong.

Cuba will eventually become a role model of how to make do and mend with technology.

For now, we're contending with phones and laptops that have sealed units and batteries to prevent users from maintaining them. Looking at you, Apple.