To ask about religion (JW)

[Imustbemad00]

I know it’s never good to discuss religion and I’m respectful of all people’s religions and choices but I’ve read a few things about Jehovas witnesses lately, from Witnesses themselves, that have surprised me.

I’ve read a few things on here where people have said they were bought up as JW’s but are no longer practising as adults and feel they missed out as children. This really interests me as I’ve never heard this before with other religions.

I’ve known Witnesses, who have grown up and also raised their children as witnesses and are very happy with their choices. But that isn’t the impression I’ve gotten on here.

Is there really that many people that feel that way, and why?

Generally people stick with what they know and how they were raised and that is how religion works.

I’m not religious at all so genuinely interested.

I know people who cut their son off when he came out in the early 80s

See that's what I don't understand, what 'God' would want you to do that, to your own son?
And why 144,000? Where did they pluck that number from?

They believe the dead who have not been witnessed to are to be brought back to life , taught "the truth" and given a chance to conform or finally be destroyed too. Unless if I remember rightly god already killed them e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah.

It's a cult because it refuses any inspection. You are encouraged to study but only using their own literature. Anything external is apostate and not to be looked at never mind trusted. Anything which might encourage critical thinking e.g. University is wrong. Keep busy doing what they say and don't question anything and you have faith abdxthus you are happy right?

The child abuse stuff is awful. I'm disgusted people I was actively encouraged to call uncle are now in jail and my parents still don't believe they did anything wrong. The girls involved were "unbalanced"

The damage it does is terrible. It preys on the vulnerable. Basically a small group of very rich white American men control the whole thing. They own billions of dollars worth of land in Brooklyn and still encourage the poor and old to give money every month and refuse to look after people who worked for them full time for years and have no pension. Look up Spanish bethel pensions for an example.

Their biggest growth areas are in developing countries.

This has been really interesting.

Obviously the main thing that I already knew was not celebrating birthdays ect. I’ve always (clearly wrongly) assumes the kids didn’t mind as they knew know different, and that was my perception from what I’ve seen.

It does seem quite an unforgiving religion but I guess you could say that about all of them.

Maybe they are varying levels of ‘strictness’ and the people I have known over years have been on the lower end of the scale.

Been a very informative read though.

The 144,000 thing. See that bit even they can't agree on. There are some particular verses in that book of stories that reference that number, its in Revelations somewhere. They reckon that the 144,000 "know" they are chosen. Everyone knows somebody who knows somebody who knew they were chosen. It's fucking nonsense.

""www.jwfacts.com"" is a pretty comprehensive and reasonably well balanced site for more information. To be quite honest though their own literature down the years is enough to condemn them after any serious study of it.

They reckon that the 144,000 "know" they are chosen. Everyone knows somebody who knows somebody who knew they were chosen. It's fucking nonsense

I’d just go around telling people I was a chosen one. It’s not like they have a list.

I'm definitely out now!

@Mogtheanxiouscat So the rest go somewhere nice, its just not called heaven yeah? I am actually really happy to be wrong in that case.

@stopdropandroll

i’ve been wondering recently about the JW who stand in twos outside tube stations with a rack of leaflets. i’ve never seen them hand any out or approach anyone, why do they do it?

It's 'cart witnessing.'
They dont want to give out leaflets that get discarded as litter. If people are genuinely interested to pick up some literature, they'll ask and have a chat

They consider all non-JWs 'worldly' or sinners so actively do not associate with them or have them as friends. Only really communicating with worldly individuals to preach to them.
I learnt this as I considered a JW my best friend, studied with her, until i realised it wasn't reciprocal. She's a bit odd by some measures, but told me eventually that I had essentially been considered (judged!) and deemed ok to be friends with because she knew my ethics/morals, so was allowed into her house and that was a very privileged positions because not everyone/non-JW would be treated the same. The cheek!
She had a celebratory event and only JWs were allowed, was when I realised where our friendship really stood, sadly.
I've since distanced myself from her, unfortunately.

I know it effects 1 of her children. The were bf with my kid at school.
It's really hard the way the have to isolate themselves and quite tricky to reconcile with the way modern society is these days.

It’s not like they have a list.
....ohhh, but they do report a list back to Watchtower HQ, yearly.

@SadOtter
Yes, paradise on Earth

Ex JW and I wouldn't inflict it on my DC. I was naive but not now. I left before I married but would have stayed childless if I still believed. The two witness rule to abuse finished any lingering doubt.

OP, either you must not know many people, or you are of a particularly incurious disposition, if you really only know people who apparently tootle along doing what they were taught as children.

@OP
Is there really that many people that feel that way, and why?
It's very strict, very isolating.
I believe the intentions are good, but like every religion it's got man-made doctrine (which they refuse to see).
They teach Christianity brilliantly, the bible studies literature is great, but I imo they practice it terribly.

I'm a protestant/CoE Christian.
I can at least see where religion and cultural influences have been applied. I can see why people disagree with 'organised religion' in it's current and historical form.

I think as Christian's we'd all do better to strip those bit away and practice the spiritual/true messages of our faith.

I've been raised in faith but still have to google why our priests wears certain ropes and robes and why the congregation kneels and stands at certain times and the significance of certain events :/
That's all been added over the years, somewhat distracts from Jesus' teaching imo.

I've just watched apostasy, have been meaning to but finally did it to see if it was indeed dramatised. From my experience, no.
My sister and I lived with our mum. My sister wanted nothing to do with the truth, she came home from school with transfer tattoos of crosses and similar. She was palmed off to her dad whom she had never met at 14 years old who promptly dumped her in foster care. Mum showed no emotion.
My nan died from not accepting a blood transfusion. The funeral was in a kingdom hall which I (disfellowshipped) attended. Relatives made a line for sympathies, I was skipped over very obviously by every single person. These were people that I had grown up with.
My mum wanted nothing to do with me until my daughter was born. I cut contact as she wouldn't stop reading her literature and talking to her about Jehovah.
The meeting to disfellowship someone when it's regarding a pregnancy or being with someone is humiliating. They asked me if my boyfriend raped me. They asked how many times we had sex and what type of sex. I was 16 years old and they were 3 middle age or above males - no one else in the room.

To the person saying they knew people allowed to go to university - I also knew an elder who paid for his daughters abortion. You get the exceptions that are, for some reason, brushed under the carpet.

Jw's are a very strict sect, no Christmas no birthdays no celebrating things, people can be pretty resentful of their childhood if they leave as adults tbh. I'm sure many jw children do stay in the organisation but it's just quite extreme so many leave.

You get the exceptions that are, for some reason, brushed under the carpet.
Absolutely!
Even on the sillest levels..
Strict JW I know, would absolutely not let her kid get involved in football supporting or junior team member, but her elder FIL has taken the kids as mascots for rugby team he supports. I read the literature about not following any sports teams, but because he's an elder it probably goes unquestioned (and because it's not football).

Also, seemingly ok for elders children to go to uni if required (to study medicine) as long as it's done quietly and not promoted.
Yet actively discourage the masses from higher education within JWs

Interesting to hear that the film wasn’t over dramatised.

I’ve just remembered that my best friend who works as a nurse in cardiac HDU nursed a lovely middle aged man who was a JW. He was very very poorly but refused a blood transfusion ( am I right they it’s technically possible and permitted for them to have some sort of self transfusion?). Anyway they managed to talk him into a blood transfusion only for him to be visited by an elder, he changed his mind and died norm long after. My friend was gutted as she said he was a lovely chap who could have got better.

@moormummy - they're allowed components of blood by current teaching from a third party donor. They must not donate their own blood ever. Iirc there is a prohibition on stored blood yet somehow fractions/components are allowed. There has generally always been a green light for hemophiliacs etc though.

@Argonauts That is generally my experience. Obviously I don’t know how most people were brought up, but close friends and family, yes, tend to bring their children up with the same values as they were brought up. I thought that was normally what happened. You only know what you are taught and unless it was a really terrible childhood why would you do someti f drastically different.

I've been approached by a few to try to convert me. I'm Jewish, and I've found telling them that makes them go away. In fact, the last time they rang the bell she congratulated me for having a religion!

It makes me laugh when people of other religions criticise JWs. Have a look at your own religion, they're all bonkers. Is there anything more vile than the concept of original sin, a cornerstone of Christianity. Islam has flying horses. Utter nonsense, the lot of it.

Again, OP, your insistence that you have never encountered anyone who has rejected significant elements of their upbringing is pretty strange. When we are children, yes, we don’t know any better, but a key criterion of adulthood is encountering completely different life experiences, belief systems etc. And having had a happy or unhappy childhood is irrelevant. You don’t need to have been abused to cease to believe in a religion fed you when you didn’t have access to adult critical faculties.

Personally, I don’t think I know anyone who has blindly followed the belief system they were brought up in. I know people who grew up in atheist households and began to follow a religion as adults, and the reverse. I know people who have converted to Judaism and Islam, and people who have left. I know a childhood Calvinist who now tends an
Episcopalian church.

I used to work with a JW - probably the loveliest woman I have met. She was happy to answer the hundreds of facetious questions I threw at her including the rather rude "you're an intelligent woman why do you believe this shit stuff?".

As an aside, apparently JWs have funded major research into synthetic blood products which will benefit everyone.