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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nurse didn’t ask for my consent

58 replies

emmagreen481 · 20/12/2018 16:44

I had an early scan on 9th July at 7 weeks pg because of a previous ectopic pregnancy, and the scan lady I had was so horrible and it was just a horrific experience overall. It was an internal scan to check the baby which she showed the baby to me for literally half a second and after that she proceeded to perform an internal scan of my bladder, kidneys etc which took around 15 mins and was extremely painful. She didn’t ask for my consent to do this or to even have the student in the room. I was clearly in pain and she did it so rough, I was crying and the student asked me if I was okay and I said it was really painful but the scan lady just continued. Also when I asked for a picture, she actually laughed at me and said ‘yeah but you can’t see anything’ which really upset me due to my previous ectopic, on this scan I could see the baby in the uterus which was a big thing for me and my partner. I saw a post on Facebook the other day about ‘birth room rape’ and doctors not asking for consent to procedures and it’s got me thinking if i should make a complaint or not?

OP posts:
Original poster
emmagreen481 · 20/12/2018 17:20

Maybe not the kidneys, but I know for 100% facts that she was showing my pelvic area as a demonstration to the student. She would say things like ‘This is the bladder which has been emptied nicely’ etc. She should of asked me before she did it. And I was crying, surely you would stop if you could see someone was that uncomfortable? Even the student was concerned with her carrying on

OP posts:
ichifanny · 20/12/2018 17:21

Sorry I’m speaking as healthcare professional I do painful procedures on people and it can be hard to perform some procedures as they are painful by the nature of the procedure I wouldn t stop many of them unless asked to or it was very obvious they were in pain as the procedure is important for a healthcare reason , it sounds like she could have a nicer bedside manner however .

Original poster
emmagreen481 · 20/12/2018 17:22

Ichifanny

It wasn’t necessary for her to scan my complete pelvic area. The scan was to check for baby’s heartbeat. Oh and it was very obvious I was in pain when I was crying

OP posts:
HarveySchlumpfenburger · 20/12/2018 17:23

Consent doesn’t have to be verbal as such in healthcare but can be implied

It does have to be informed consent though which is quite difficult if you haven’t explained what you’re going to do. And if you haven’t got explicit verbal consent, I think it would be quite difficult to argue that you assumed a patient that was crying through a procedure implied consent.

ichifanny · 20/12/2018 17:25

I’d assume the verbal consent was at the start of the scan Rafal , yes you would think a health professional would stop and check they were happy to continue if the person was very upset , but it doesn’t always imply you want the procedure to end , some
People cry through blood tests etc it doesn’t mean they want you to cease .

SlowlyShrinking · 20/12/2018 17:26

Yes you should complain. You didn’t consent to the extended scan, or having a student present. Speak to PALS as your first contact and see what they advise. She sounds like a very unprofessional sonographer.

redexpat · 20/12/2018 17:26

Good point Rafals

ichifanny · 20/12/2018 17:27

I fully agree with your informed consent point Rafals

Graphista · 20/12/2018 17:28

Redexpat - what a nasty victim blaming response!

Yes complain, so sorry you went through this. Completely unacceptable behaviour by the sonographer.

Isittimeforbed · 20/12/2018 17:32

Just because she’s seen a baby in your uterus doesn’t mean you don’t have an ectopic as well. She needs to assess the whole pelvic area to make sure there isn’t another baby as ectopics aren’t only tubal - it’s known as a heterotopic pregnancy. It’s rare but she can’t assume it’s not a possibility as that would be negligent. She wasn’t doing a bladder scan, just pointing out anatomical landmarks as part of a thorough assessment. It doesn’t sound particularly well handled if you were in that much pain and it wasn’t all explained to you though.

Spaghettibol · 20/12/2018 17:34

Isittimeforbed
I did comment but you may have missed it. I’ve had several scans before due to previous ectopic and they didn’t take 15 minutes

Also said I had a scan at that hospital for that pg to check if it was ectopic, and it was established at that scan it wasn’t and this was written in my notes. The repeat scan was to check for heartbeat

ADastardlyThing · 20/12/2018 17:40

"'birth room rape’ "

I wouldn't use this phrase again op.

MrsStrowman · 20/12/2018 17:46

Complain if you feel you were mistreated with regard to the student and additional unnecessary scanning.
I would warn you that the checks they do in early labour were very painful for me (narrow cervix) and there were no niceties or apologies, in all honesty it felt like how I imagine being fisted would feel. It's a clinical process to them, so think about strategies to get you through birth etc. I had a slightly complicated pregnancy and had many scans, I was never asked if they could do an internal (I had six SIL, pregnant at the same time had none) I was just told to remove my underwear or change position. I guess it's not really a request, they need to carry out checks and that's how it needs to be done.

cheesywotnots · 20/12/2018 17:46

Perhaps you could speak to the doctor, see what scan they had organised for you, I've had a internal vaginal scan to check my pregnancy as I was older, sadly my baby had died and I had no symptoms. Did you sign a consent form or discuss this with the doctor before you had it done.

SouthWestmom · 20/12/2018 17:50

I can believe this.

I'm still scarred (emotionally) by the midwife who came in, and started pulling a drain out factor my c section. I tried to stop her and asked her and she just continued. I know it would have had to be removed but it was agonising and really distressing.

Spaghettibol · 20/12/2018 17:50

ADastardlyThing

Excuse me ? I was talking about a Facebook post I saw which sparked me to think about it again, not my own experiences. Are you aware of birth room rape because it is a very real thing I think you should educate yourself on

From my point of view I feel like I was assaulted. I didn’t consent to her performing a procedure

ADastardlyThing · 20/12/2018 17:54

NC fail?

Just commenting that it's a horrible phrase and not accurate in this situation anyway. You consented to the scan, how she conducted it is a different matter (and awful, but not rape by any stretch of the imagination)

Cheby · 20/12/2018 17:55

I would warn you that the checks they do in early labour were very painful for me (narrow cervix) and there were no niceties or apologies, in all honesty it felt like how I imagine being fisted would feel. It's a clinical process to them, so think about strategies to get you through birth etc. I had a slightly complicated pregnancy and had many scans, I was never asked if they could do an internal (I had six SIL, pregnant at the same time had none) I was just told to remove my underwear or change position. I guess it's not really a request, they need to carry out checks and that's how it needs to be done.

This makes me incredibly sad to read. They do need to ask your permission and gain your informed consent for EACH VE they do, they’re not always necessary (as evidenced by your SIL not having any), you don’t always have to say yes, they should explain WHY they are doing it and they should offer pain relief if it is painful.

I am so angry that women are trained to think they just have to put up and shut up with this kind of shit.

Mrsfrumble · 20/12/2018 17:56

I know you didn’t invent the phrase OP, but surely you can understand that calling it “rape” is not on?

A unpleasant violation, absolutely. But not rape.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/12/2018 17:58

It is absolutely a request. You can say no for any reason. The HCP has the duty to make sure you understand what they want to do and why, what the risks/benefits are and what any alternatives are. Only then can you properly consent.

Cheby · 20/12/2018 18:00

The use of the word rape in this context comes from the US, where the definition of rape can include penetration with any body part or object, which differs from the definition in the U.K. it is an accurate description in the US and the phrase is transferred here.

ADastardlyThing · 20/12/2018 18:04

Ok.

Op if you believe this nurse raped you I urge you to report it.

PBobs · 20/12/2018 18:05

My obgyn doctor is amazing when she does scans but she's had a good look around without saying much beforehand. She also reels off the lists of what she's looking at and there's definitely no student in the room - I always assumed she was doing it for my benefit.

cheesywotnots · 20/12/2018 18:09

It wasn't a nurse who did the scan.

zeeboo · 20/12/2018 18:11

I was really sympathetic towards you until you said that the "bladder scan" was her simply showing the student that the bladder was nice and empty as trans vaginal scans need that, unlike trans abdominal ones where a full bladder can help the view.
You clearly don't know what the sonographer was asked to check and it sounds from what you've said that she was doing exactly as she ought to. I've had the same scan and maybe 10mns in length? But I would expect her to go more slowly if she is explaining to a student as she goes. They aren't supposed to go "oh yeah, heartbeat" and then turn it off ffs!!