To tell a lie on my application?

[LittleWhiteLies]

I've been provisionally offered a job that I'm really pleased about!

They've asked for references and I've provided my two previous employers, no problems there.
The employer before them dismissed me for gross misconduct, I worked there for 7 years and left 5 years ago so I didn't think I would ever have to use them as a reference but my new employer wants a reference from them. On my application I didn't say that I was dismissed, I gave another reason for leaving so wasn't 100% truthful in my application.

The company has changed owners twice since I left.

Does anyone think I'll get caught out by this?

I hope not

I think you will,if they have staff records showing dates of employment they're likely to have a record of why you left.
What did you do to get dismissed? You might be able to discuss it with the prospective employer, but be prepared they'll take a dim view of lying on the application form.

They will know that you were dismissed for gross misconduct but they won't actually know what happened as the previous workplace aren't obliged to disclose that.

The best course of action is always to be honest and upfront. Beat them to it by telling them and give them whatever reason you like! Obviously it's a bit late for that and you weren't expecting to have to give a reference but hopefully it will sort itself out!

Sorry OP, they are likely to withdraw the job offer because you haven’t been honest with them. Being caught out in a lie like this is a huge red flag.

I was hoping that because the company that dismissed me don't exist anymore they wouldn't be able to get one.

I got dismissed because I reached the end of my tether after being bullied by a new manager and swore at him

If the original company no longer exists I'd be inclined to tell the new employers that.

That's if it's a completely new company... if it's the same company with new owners I wonder if you've got anything to lose by ringing them to ask if they are able to provide a reference going back that far. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was no.

Regnamechanger that gives me hope. The one I originally worked for shut down and sold to someone else, then that company did the same so they are now on the third owners since I worked there.
The new owners have only been there for a couple of months

Have a conversation with either the manager you'll be working under, or the recruitment consultant. Depending on how you state your case, and whether your other references are all positive, they may decide to allow you to start but under specific measures, for example extending your probationary period.

I would start by saying that the company no longer exists and you don't have contact details for the old boss. You never know it may well be left there.

But obviously take Regnamechanger's advice before disclosing anything to your new employer!

You could get your tax records for that period of time, it will confirm your dates

I don't think anyone would expect you to tell the truth about being dismissed for gross misconduct 5 years ago when applying for a job now, and you haven't lied about it - just been a bit evasive with the truth. The mistake you made was to put this employer on your CV. It would have been better to have left them off - it was so long ago it's not really relevant anyway.
Probably 2 good references plus an older bad one might not put them off, if they like you otherwise. Also, it's quite possible that they won't pass on the gross misconduct thing especially as the new owners don't know you personally - it's risky giving someone a bad reference unless you are sure of your facts.
However I think at this stage I would come clean and just tell them why you were dismissed. Otherwise they may imagine something much worse. Swearing at the boss, whilst obviously not ideal, is not really a reason not to employ who's had a good record for the last 5 years.

I did say in my interview that the company doesn't exist anymore and that they've just changed again and he said he'll see what she can do.

I know that my two references before them will be good so hopefully they'll not bother with the third one.

God what a mess. This is the first time I've lied about it because other jobs have never asked about it I didn't think they would after this length of time :(

But agree, if the company under the old name no longer exists, just tell them that.

I got a basic reference from a company I worked for because it had changed hands - it simply stated dates of employment no reason for leaving

Slightly different but i recently got a new job and I gave my previous manager as a reference rather than the current one,I hadn't been sacked or anything negative I just trusted her to give a better reference and she did!

*anniehm
*
I'll have to hope I get the same

The company you worked for doesn’t exist any more so can’t be expected to provide a reference. End of.

Has it stopped existing or just changed owners/name?

If it's the same company, legally, they'll probably have records as they have to keep them for six years. If it's not, they probably wont have any records and if they confirm anything it'll be dates of employment.

It seems odd that they want a reference from so long ago. Have they explained why?

Anchor

The company I worked for have ceased to exist but the building is still called the same if that makes sense?

I'm hoping that they won't have any records because they don't exist now

They didn't say why they need it just said that they need 5 years worth of references

I think as pp said just tell them company no longer exists but perhaps provide proof to them that you worked there (tax records or something?) I'd be surprised if they have to Chase it up further, unless it's for the police or army or something? I know they have to dig very deeply!

Good luck with it all

Doesn’t exist in the same way Woolworths doesn’t exist or doesn’t exist in the same way Waitrose now doesn’t exist separately because it’s been absorbed into John Lewis? If it’s just been bought over the new owners will likely have kept records.

Doesn't exist in the same way as Woolworths

I would reiterate that the company doesn't exist and hence there will be no reference. I would also supply pay slips to prove you worked there and also suggest they might like to take up a personal reference?

I don't think any company would expect you to say left due to swearing at a manager on an application. But depending on the industry you are in, not disclosing you were sacked could lead to problems later on. In my industry you would be fired if they found out later.

It was 5 years ago and presumably there have been no issues since. It might be better for you to disclose it honestly now, explaining how you have learned from it and how you would handle it differently now. A 5 year old dismissal is a lot less off putting than a second recent one for non-disclosure.