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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To say no to my cleaner coming over Christmas?

347 replies

ettyz · 19/12/2018 14:17

My cleaner who works 5 days a week doing 6 hours a day for us and gets above the average wage for a cleaner, has said that she needs to work next week. I said no to working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday as obviously it’s Christmas and no to Friday as I have people over. She’s obviously self employed and we are her only cleaning job, but I don’t really fancy someone cleaning when Me and dh not at work, all the kids are at home and we just want to relax without anyone in the home. She said it’s too much money for her to lose out and she won’t be able to afford to not work those days. she hates Christmas and doesn’t have any family to spend it with so was actually asking to do Christmas Day! It’s not my fault she hasn’t budgeted for it but we had told her when we first took her on in April that we don’t need her services over Christmas. Aibu to say no to her working those days next week, I don’t want to upset her. We are hosting Christmas at ours so no time when we won’t be at home next week for her to pop in and clean, plus I’m at home so I’ll be able to do it anyway!

OP posts:

Christmasgone2018 · 19/12/2018 16:24

Yeh this is real

TinkerSpy · 19/12/2018 16:24

The OP's post, I mean. Not PP!

The story has more holes than a colander.

KaliforniaDreamz · 19/12/2018 16:28

Just pay her. How can you even ask? FFS.

NameChangeOhNameChange1 · 19/12/2018 16:36

Oh I'll add that all of us get holiday pay.

NameChangeOhNameChange1 · 19/12/2018 16:37

FIFTY GRAND TO BE A PART TIME NANNY? FIFTY? Where do I sign? My kids are old enough to look after themselves.......sort of...........

Not part time, I do 40 hours a week, the other nanny does 35 I think.

DarlingNikita · 19/12/2018 16:43

You made it clear months ago that you didn't need her at Christmas. I don't have much sympathy for her, TBH. I'm self-employed too and one of the basic rules IMO is not to have all your work eggs in one basket.

OTOH, you might be on thin ice in terms of her being a 'hidden employee' i.e. technically self-employed but almost on salaried-staff terms. I get that you've tried to get her to be employed, but you might still want to check out where you stand legally.

Happypie · 19/12/2018 16:44

Crumbs, what a dilemma.

helacells · 19/12/2018 16:51

Is this Melania?

Fortheloveofscience · 19/12/2018 16:54

But OP, will your floor boards cope for a week without daily mopping and treatment with two products? What if they rot ?!

Bonkersblond · 19/12/2018 16:56

Am flabbergasted, my dog walker, self employed will not be needed for the next 2 weeks, she does not expect to be paid, admittedly she only does a couple of hours a week, but I’m giving her the money she is missing out on as a bonus, is that not the right thing to do?? Pay the poor woman, not paying her is hardly in the spirit of Christmas is it.

TwoGinScentedTears · 19/12/2018 17:00

I think your arrangement is illegal. Someone who works set days and hours every week isn't self employed-she's an amp litre and should be registered as such.

You should be paying paye tax and NI and have pensions and holidays sorted as well. It's the same as having a nanny.

So you need to sort that out but in the meantime pay her 3 days wages for the days she's not there as holiday pay like a proper employer should.

Wheresthebeach · 19/12/2018 17:02

That's a full time cleaner...really???

Does she muck out the stables as well?

Vagndidit · 19/12/2018 17:02

7 bathrooms 😂
C'mon Op, don't be so tight. If you don't want her round during Christmas, fair enough, but it sounds like she's probably counting on her wage for that week regardless. Pay her properly.

Boulty · 19/12/2018 17:03

Is someone truly self employed if they have only one employer and work 30 hours for that same person? I don't know but it seems strange... getting close to having a contract and rights to holiday pay/sick pay etc.....

PS Just a question I have no idea of the answer but in the back of my head I recall someone before saying where only 1 employer might not be seen as self employed...

Curlybrunette · 19/12/2018 17:05

I'm disagreeing with the majority here but if you have offered to employ her, and she has turned that down and wishes to remain self employed then no, you absolutely do not have to pay her.

It sounds like she is remaining self employed because she doesn't want to pay tax, that's on her. You wouldn't expect to pay your milkman for milk if they didn't deliver it, or the school after school club in the school hols when your kids aren't there so why should you pay for a service you don't need.

If she was employed then that's a totally different story but she isn't so no.

But, 6 hours cleaning 5 days a week. Wow. Just wow.

Rhiannon13 · 19/12/2018 17:05

You want to leave her short on Christmas week? It sounds like you weren't as clear as you should have been (or you should've reminded her a few weeks ago you didn't need her next week). I'd give her half the money as a goodwill gesture, plus a bonus, then make sure I made clear in writing what's needed moving forwards. Is she employed or self-employed? You really need to check that OP!

TheVonTrappFamilySwingers · 19/12/2018 17:06

Yeah nice one OP. Proper funny.

Thesnobbymiddleclassone · 19/12/2018 17:10

She's not required, that'd an element of that job and no you don't have to pay her for days she doesn't work.

Curlybrunette · 19/12/2018 17:11

With regards to her actually being employed by you, she isn't, and should be providing you with a receipt or bill each week. This would show that you are paying her for a service.

BlingLoving · 19/12/2018 17:14

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm afraid to tell you that she's not self employed - you are her employer and HMRC would consider her that as she works for you for this many hours on a long standing basis.

As such, she is due 5.2 (or something like that ) weeks of paid leave. You should also be paying her pension. You'd also be obligated to pay SMP (although could claim that back) and should be paying her PAYE and NI.

If you are not in the UK, and quite frankly, you could easily be from one of the many countries where full time domestic labour is fairly normal - I know people in such situations in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Africa etc. In which case you may not have a legal obligation, but you do have an ethical obligation. FFS - it's Christmas. You may be paying her a "good" wage, but how much over minimum wage is it? How good/bad is minimum wage in that country? Are you paying what is in fact a livable wage?

And if you pay her so well over the odds, does that take into account her need to take holiday? You've been amusingly vague on what you pay her - in my experience, lots of people who say they pay their cleaners more than necessary mean they're paying a few percentage points above the legal minimum and in some countries, unfortunately, that really doesn't help much.

WhiteDust · 19/12/2018 17:15

What a load of rubbish.

If this were real, I'd be telling you that you employ this woman full-time and have all the responsibilities of an employer. Seriously, who works 30hrs for someone and refuses holiday pay, pension etc.?
Your imaginary cleaner OP, that's who.

Brittanyspears · 19/12/2018 17:15

Hmmmm 7 bathrooms that need cleaning daily? Floors mopped daily? Do you have pet pigs? Just saw one fly by

PumpkinKitty82 · 19/12/2018 17:22

How messy is your house that it needs to be cleaned for 6 hours a day ,5 times a week??
That’s insane

Singlenotsingle · 19/12/2018 17:24

Honestly, you need to tread very carefully here. Arguably she's an employee and is entitled to holiday pay. If she's been with you since April, then she's accrued at least 2 weeks.

It's no good you just not doing all the things that you should be doing, and then saying she's self employed. Does she work for several people? (No). Do you have the right to say what she does, and where, how and when she does it? (Yes).

Just pay her the money.

MyDcAreMarvel · 19/12/2018 17:27

I am surprised you are at home at Christmas op, thought you would be in Maui.

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