AIBU to think this dog is dangerous and to report

[JemimaPyjamas]

Posting in AIBU also for traffic.

I board dogs, and I walk dogs. In short, I love dogs and I am very good at my job. This is not an antidog thread AT ALL!

A neighbour a few doors up from me has a staffie cross. The owner is a lovely woman who, she's told me this, suffers from anxiety. I also think she drinks quite a lot to cope with this (due to the bottles in the recycling and the semi coherent late facebook posts.) She loves this dog with all her heart and I suspect she has become quite dependant on him. She says that staffie's have a bad press, which I agree with, and that people are uncomfortable with her dog 'as they won't understand how to handle staffies' or 'assume he is dangerous just because he's a staffie.' I don't agree with this.

She got the dog from the Dogs Trust and he had only been there a few days when she adopted. I now think that possibly he wasn't assessed thoroughly.

In the 18 months she has had him, she has stopped seeing friends as much as as there is a high chance the dog could attack. She walks him either very early or very late as he is, as she puts it, 'reactive' especially towards men. He will lunge (and is very strong) and go for someone, whether it would go as far as biting or just be barking I am not sure.

The dog also goes berserk when anyone goes past the house, not just barking but teeth baring and aggressive, jumping up or at the windows. His owner says 'he's just letting me know someone is there' but it doesn't look like that to me.

When she first got him, I suggested (tactfully!) that she should take him back to Dogs Trust to get help. They provide lifelong support so she could take advantage. She said no, it was too far. Its about an hour's drive away so not a huge distance. I think she is afraid the dog will be taken from her if she goes back, or gets 'official' help and so she pretends that her dog is okay and 'just needs special support.'

I am now very wary of this dog, and I think she is becoming more insular and afraid to seek help. There have been recent incidents there the dog went for a man at the bottom of the street, or pulled her over (she broke her arm), or the Tesco delivery driver ended up hiding in her house.

She is overcompensating for the behaviour and coming up with excuses, but I think it's only a matter of time before something very serious happens if she refuses to seek help.

AIBU to, at the very least, speak to the Dogs Trust? It would absolutely break her heart but I am running out of patience as she is refusing to try and address any of the issues.

@JemimaPyjamas I totally understand why you mentioned the breed. Unfortunately as this is on AIBU and not on The Doghouse you will get posters blaming the dog's behaviour on its breed as opposed to its history. Quite sad really. But I think you are being very wise with the risks and should 100% report.

Thanks @AlpacaLypse - do you know what they'd do? Would they send someone, could they force the issue...? I know they are very supportive but don't know the ins and outs!

Anyone suggesting dogs try to dominate their owners can be ignored op. It's the same as pack theory, total nonsense.

There has been other good advice on this thread, I agree speak to dogs trust, maybe then can do a follow up call/visit?

awwlook it is very much an aggressive bark, not the usual 'letting someone know' sort of bark

I would suggest from your description of her that anxiety = alcoholic
the hours drive to the dogs trust is probably not viable with her drinking habits
The dog needs help , she needs help.
She can only seek help for herself should she admit that it's needed ( unlikely )
She's not going to help the dog so maybe you need to contact the trust for a follow up visit ?
My heart goes out to the poor dog who didn't need an owner with problems like these

Please report to Dogs Trust. They will want to know and will reach out/visit her. Thanks

OP I have sent you a message privately.

A dog's breed does have something to do with it's behaviour in the majority of cases PengALy. That's why people read breed descriptions when deciding what breed of dog to get.

A staffie's ancestors would have been specifically chosen for breeding due to their suitability for bloodsports. That will have an impact on the personality of the staffies we have today.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/12/20/two-dogs-in-rural-virginia-mauled-their-owner-to-death-authorities-say-but-why/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6e9b11e5c1a8

A stimulus that triggered an aggressive reaction, a sudden change in the dogs’ home life, behavioral changes that they might have been going through as they matured, or a combination of all of these, could have been contributing factors, experts say. For something as terrible as Stephens’s death to happen, there needs to be “a sort of perfect storm of events,” said Marjie Alonso, executive director of the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants, though what those events were remains a mystery.

Stelow, a certified veterinary behaviorist, said fear is statistically the most common underlying cause of aggression among dogs.

“Now that does not mean we don’t see aggression coming from dogs that are not experiencing fear in that moment, but the overwhelming majority of aggression is part of a fight-or-flight response,” Stelow said. “So you’re in a position where you must do something, and the thing that you find yourself doing is inflicting harm

“Almost all of the aggression I deal with clinically is based on fear,” Stelow added. “Everything I’ve read about the case suggests that what likely happened is there was a triggering event, and the dogs either turned on each other and she became involved, or they turned on her because of something that happened, some external stimulus that happened.”

There’s also a concept called predatory drift, said Alonso, a Massachusetts-based certified dog behavior consultant. The term, coined by veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar, is described as “the kicking in of predatory reflexes in an interaction that begins as a social interaction.”

And something has to provoke it, Alonso said.

“Let’s say she was running with them and she fell and she was shouting because she got hurt,” Alonso said. “It’s possible — and I can’t say that this is what happened — that that triggered a response for one of the dogs, maybe, to bite her out of excitation, out of fear, whatever that might be, and caused the other dog to also turn on her.”

Stephens was found dead Thursday evening in a wooded area about a half a mile from a main road. Authorities said the 22-year-old had been gone for about a day since she left to walk her dogs, so her father went out to look for her in the area she frequented. There, he found the male dogs, Tonka and Pacman, near what he first thought was an animal carcass.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/dog-owner-dies-attacked-staffordshire-bull-terrier/
mauled to death by his pet dog after he suffered a seizure, sending the animal into a frenzy.

Mario Perivoitos, had been filming with a BBC crew at his home in north London when he was suddenly taken ill, causing his Staffordshire bull terrier, Major, to attack.

After falling to the ground the 41-year-old was bitten repeatedly in the neck, causing a fatal loss of blood.

I think the concept of predatory drift 'the kicking in of predatory reflexes in an interaction that begins as a social interaction' is something that we should pay attention to
dogs do have predatory instincts and they can be triggered, if this happens with a large powerful dog the consequences will be horrific

No, it's not dangerous as long as she is controlling it. If she's walking it on-lead and avoid busy periods and otherwise keeping the dog secure on private property then there is minimal risk.

She should talk to the Dog's Trust. And if you want to report it to anyone then that's who you should report it to. Unless there's something you're not saying, e.g. that the dog is being exercised off-lead or is escaping frequently.

PengAly of course dogs tend to behave in accordance with their breed! Herding types herd, hounds scent and hunt, terriers dig and yap, setters and pointers instinctively set and point. Most dogs are capable of aggression but the nature of that aggression varies, and many years of selection for specific mental and physical traits (ie, the creation of breeds) has a huge bearing on the likelihood of a dog attacking someone and the consequences if it does so. Two Cavalier King Charles Spaniels have and will never, never, not in a million years, chase down a small boy and bite him seventy two times until he dies.

@JemimaPyjamas sorry have been offline for absolutely ages... no I don't know quite what they'd do but I do know they have been amazingly supportive of both of my doggy daycare clients who originally came from them and we have all worked together to give both these dogs the best possible life. Ring them and tell them fully and frankly what you know and what you suspect.

Let DT know the situation, they would not want their reputation threatened by being associated with this dog should he attack someone.

Yes you CAN blame a breed to a certain extent! Ridiculous statement.
Look at the attacks made by bull terriers (bred to fight) and attacks by for instance labradoodles, poodles or golden retrievers....

Sorry I've not RTFT.
Her dog sounds incredibly like mine was when I first got him, mine is a boxer/old English cross, so also a large boy.

She NEEDS to act now. She may not realise this, but I'm sure you do, bigger dogs, especially those with a rep are going to be labelled aggressive quite quickly, and if someone has concerns, the police can decide they want to check the dog, see of me is a risk due to aggression, which can lead to him being put down. If she does anything less than everything possible for him, she is really doing him a disservice.

There are a few things that are coming to mind from your OP, sounds like he needs a good harness to stop him being able to pull with the force he currently is. It sounds like he's also possible being under walked, so maybe she needs to go somewhere where he can walk with less risk of people for 1 hour plus per day.

She needs to get dogs trust involved, they'll often have a bejaviouralist who work with them and dogs trust will meet some of the cost, they will be invaluable in getting this dog to know his place, and I know that sounds horrible, but my boy thought he was here to be security.he now knows, us humans are the leader, he doesn't need to protect us, and he is calmer knowing me has no responsibility to take care of us. He barked and barked and barked and barked when we first got him, he no longer does. My one barks when the doorbell goes, and runs to the kitchen, because I shut him behind his gate. This is his safe area. He will happily wait whilst I take deliveries etc. I don't take the risk knowing what he was like even now he is 100x better.

Even more walks and bejaviouralist will make a massive difference. She needs to plan for the worst scenario. What if he were to get out? Who could he hurt?

She really needs to get him some help or she will lose him.

I also wonder if she sort of sings around him to keep her voice free of negative emotion so he doesn't react to it.

Holy moly! That incident regarding the BBC film crew and the man's dog attacking as a result of a seizure is fkn horrific.

I know that Staffys have a really good rep in general but those Jaws are lethal when things go wrong.

My old girl is a staffie (12), she's still incredibly fit, agile and strong. She's soppy around people but despises other dogs (apart from our 7yr old yorkie that shares her basket - But they live together/share scent/pack mentality). The issue is that I know exactly how she reacts towards 'unknown' dogs and she has been intensively trained since 6wks old in that respect. She will not approach people/dogs when walking, she sits and waits for her lead (if off), she has perfect recall, and she's never allowed out of eye line. Staffies are massive people pleasers and strive to be 'good dogs', that's unfortunately one of the traits bred into the breed to produce fighting dogs as they'll 'fight' to please their owners. They're highly intelligent but have very powerful jaws and they will lock on. It's a crying shame if she's taken on a dog that may end up harming someone if she can't respond to it's needs properly. I'd ring and hope they'll call out to assess the situation.

What was also horrific about that attack is the dog was found to have consumed drugs. as the owner was a drug addict, I can't imagine the dog had a normal sort of environment to live in. Again, it comes down to ownership not breed, especially when you consider labradors did have the highest rate of dog attacks in the UK not so long ago.

Yes ADastardlyThing, pretty sure most recent statistic was Daschunds with the highest rate. Obviously staffs, rotties etc are far more likely to do serious damage which is why they're the dog attacks we hear about but I don't believe any dog is predisposed to attack based on breed.

I have a dog myself and have a small home boarding business. My parents also have a staffy and my hubby grew up with staffys - they are a breed that is massively misunderstood and I am certainly not staffy bashing!! I do think that you should give the dogs trust a call as they obviously have not assessed this dog properly and the dog is now with an owner whose anxiety and demeanour will be making his behaviour problems worse- the dog senses this and is reacting in an aggressive way to protect his owner as he feels he is the head of their pack and it’s what needs to be done!! I’m sure your neighbor would be upset but the relationship really isn’t good for either of them nor is it safe for anybody coming into contact with the dog. This lady is too anxious to be paired with a dog of this character and really sounds like she needs a different dog with a different personality to be able to have a normal existence!!! OP please call dogs trust and don’t feel bad at all - you are being a good neighbor and caring person for doing so. Good luck

Look at the attacks made by bull terriers (bred to fight) and attacks by for instance labradoodles, poodles or golden retrievers....

Actually most attacks in the U.K. are from Labradors and dachshunds.

Pack theory is bollocks, dogs know humans are not dogs. They are daft but they aren't that stupid

Reminds me of a friend of mine who advised that I take away my dogs food while she was eating it to show her who's boss, and that I had to assert dominance over her as me being a female was threatening to my dog as she needed to be alpha female and saw my dp as alpha male and I was a threat to her 😂

FFS