Thoughts on low level forms of physical punishment in schools

[cowfacemonkey]

I'm not talking hitting or anything like that, more along the lines of being made to stand for periods of time in front of the class etc.?

DS has come home today and complained that he had to complete all his work stood up bent over a desk as punishment for talking in class. To his annoyance I have sent him off with a lecture about not talking in class. In the absence of full information on his "crimes" I'm not about to contact school over it BUT even as a fairly strict parent this type of inducing physical discomfort type of discipline doesn't sit well with me.
Just wondered where other people draw the line been discipline and physical punishment.

How old is he? I think if he's in senior school, I'd be ok with that.

That will do wonders for his spine

I agree with you about fact checking first, but on the surface no, YANBU.

I hate stuff like this - it seems like poor teaching to me.

Yes, children are annoying sometimes and not receptive, but in my view humiliation and physical discomfort are not the right tools.

You wouldn't treat an adult that way - so why is it ok to do that to a child?

So bloody what? Maybe he'll learn to shut his mouth in class in future.

My sister used to teach year 6 and there was one child who would lean his chair backwards, balancing it on 2 legs, all of the time. She told him to stop because it wasn't safe over and over again. He didn't stop so one afternoon she simply took his chair away. He didn't do it anymore. I think it isn't as useful for talking in class but I can see how removing a chatting dc so that that they don't distract other dc would work.

Perhaps he’ll learn when he should and shouldn’t talk? 🤷🏻‍♀️

My guess would be —as a serial chatterbox—that he’s been told on more than one occasion to stop speaking and he hasn’t.

Completing his work stood up bent over a desk for talking? What is that teaching him other than that the world is full of sadists who can't reason with him?
Sent to a room to work quietly on his own, asked to help another child who's struggling and not getting enough attention, I can think of a dozen better ways of dealing with him than making him work in physical discomfort. But that's me.

Publicly humiliating a child isn't something I approve of, especially if the misdemeanour wasn't even anything malicious.

Just making him change seats so he is next to someone who won't reply to his talking would have ended the annoyance quickly.

Not something I would complain about to school, but something that would cause me to keep an eye on that teacher.

It’s not something that would bother me tbh unless it was a regular thing. 30 mins or so of standing up doing work isn’t going to cause any kind of back problems or even be uncomfortable for a child with no medical needs. My kids occasionally chose to paint and draw stood up at what seems to me like a pretty low coffee table a lot of the time.

OK calm down Concernedaboutgran! Blimey but I guess if aggressive responses is your default setting then you would be OK with it!

For the hard of reading DS has been told "don't talk in class and you won't get punished" and I'm NOT going to talk to school about it.

I'm just interested in general consensus on physical discipline and where we draw the line.

I find it hilarious that parents who find it tiring to look after their own 2 or 3 children think that they can teach 25-30 children better than an experienced teacher. I honestly think every parent should be forced to teach for week. That'd shut everybody up quick smart.

My view is always that 'punishment' should suit the 'crime'. Being made to move to sit away from his friends for a period of time might be more suitable.

Standing up for the lesson seems to be more about humiliation than causing physical discomfort. The teacher may not have thought about the discomfort but was more interested in making an example of your DS (pour encourager les autres).

I don't really understand why standing up for the rest of a lesson is considered an unacceptable punishment. Some people are on their feet all day! I made a child in my class stand up for 15 mins the other day because I'd had to tell him to sit on his chair properly about 17 times! (I did warn him that was what I'd do if he continued. )

Oh and what Spaghettijumper said.

Got mixed feelings about that kind of thing but on the whole feel school children should be more exposed to discipline/ consequences. Doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world.

This isn't a teacher bashing thread (my best friend's sister's neighbour's cousin is a teacher and I'm cool with that )

There's not enough money in the world that would make me teach secondary kids.

See that's interesting to me knit because depending on a lot of factors there might be a number of reasons why a child doesn't sit properly in a chair so I would probably think it more effective in the long term to wonder to yourself if a child doesn't follow an instruction after 17 verbal prompts there might be a reason for it!

I would be the same as you, I wouldn’t like it but I wouldn’t complain.
Soaghettijumper , I actually find looking after a class of children much easier than looking after my own!

It’s not going to produce a good standard of work, is it, so seems counterproductive to me. I would stand children up who were talking during Register/intro to lesson etc but not have them attempting to complete the actual work in an uncomfortable position.

Totally what Spaghettijumper said. It should be like parental national service. Op I can guarantee you there are plenty of prior warnings and opportunity to just behave given beforehand.

Everyone’s a critic when they’re not having to deal with it aren’t they?
Maybe they are the kind of kid that talks to and disrupts whoever they sit with so moving them will achieve nothing other than disrupting different children.
If he’s complained about the punishment he’ll probably think twice about disrupting he class again which is no bad thing.

I am a secondary teacher and I think this is ridiculous. If a child was dangerously balancing the chair on 2 legs I would get them to stand up (for maybe 30 seconds after repeated warnings) but that is the only situation.

As a pp said above the 'punishment should fit the crime'

cowface reasons like what? And do these reasons Trump the child’s safety? I’ve known a kid to need the air ambulance after falling off a chair he was rocking on and hitting his head on a book shelf.
I also know many teenagers who need telling multiple times and still don’t do what they should (but I think the 17 is just a suggestion of a large number, not a specific case punted figure).

Counted not case punted!

In this case it was not a logical consequence - for constantly swinging on his chair at risk of going over backwards it's logical. For chatting moving the child to sit alone or if you're very quick thinking assigning them a task involving chatting against their will (explaining, presenting) is a more logical consequence.

I agree humiliation and physical discomfort are weak teacher's approaches to discipline, but it's a long full on day and if he was getting on her/ his last nerve and distracting classmates its very forgivable.

Chatting constantly isn't only annoying to the teacher but disruptive to classmates who want to listen or need quiet to work.