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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to Expect rules to be followed by nurses while my daughter is in hospital?

203 replies

Skmo1 · 16/12/2018 23:27

My 16yr old daughter got taken into hospital by ambulance this morning with severe stomach/abdominal pains. A&E, cannula in hand, pain relief (morphine through the cannula, then admission to ward and all very quickly! fantastic. As she is 16, shes in adult wards rather than children’s. She was very apprehensive about me not being able to stay over night with her plus she has anxiety, which brings on panic attacks about things like that! She phoned me at 8.30pm & told me she’d started feeling sore again & asked the nurse for a morphine top-up, (on docs request) nurse told her 5mins it would b with her. Nurse came back, alone & handed her a syringe filled with clear liquid & walked away! My daughter didn’t know what to do. It’s her first ever stay in hospital and also her first ever time having morphine. First time she has saw morphine was when she was down in A&E and the doctor put it straight into her cannula! She was a bit puzzled as to why SHE was GIVEN a syringe full of morphine, then left to her own devices. It’s very lucky she’s a bright girl & thought to ask before She whacked it through the cannula & it’s very very lucky she did ask as it was actually ORAL morphine, she was supposed to swallow it! So, shes got talking to a couple of women on the ward....as u do! One woman had blood and other bodily fluids all over her bed sheets from her admission on Fri. They havent been changed, at all. The same woman & another had violently vomited on Fri night and both their sick bowls are STILL sitting on their tables that go over the bed.....tonight (Sun).

So much for the hospital being vigilant in staying clean to Reduce the risk of patients catching superbugs like MRSA etc!! And also breaking controlled drug procedures completely to the point of negligence!

Am I being over the top???

OP posts:
MrsBombastic · 18/12/2018 19:32

No, you're not.

You need to speak to the ward manager and put in a written complaint to the ward manager, matron and PALS.

This is completely unacceptable.

a1poshpaws · 18/12/2018 19:32

What does PALS stand for, please?

a1poshpaws · 18/12/2018 19:35

I just googled PALS ... got it.

brummiesue · 18/12/2018 19:41

Oramorph is not a controlled drug! How many times....some trusts may have differing policies but it can be given by one nurse in the majority of cases. Please can people stop repeating inaccurate information Hmm (I prescribe oramorph on a regular basis before anyone asks/argues)

YetAnotherThing · 18/12/2018 19:44

Have only read a couple of pages but as per PP, be mindful if your daughter is on morphine, her recollection or understanding of her surroundings may not be not perfect (esp regarding full sick bowls etc). I had morphine as a 16 yr old post op and had lots of mild visual hallucinations. A gentle confusional state. If you think the concerns are absolutely real, you can also get her moved to Paeds ward until leaves full time education

GabsAlot · 18/12/2018 19:59

my dsis wa son hosital have an appendectomy-she asked for some more pain relief after the surgery a nurse came n with a syringe-dssis asked whatit was -morphone they said-she hadnt even been on morphone just ibuprofen-the nurse just said oh ok and took it off

didnt check notes or anything

patient opposite her had asked for pain relief 5 times each nurse just said yeah ok and didnt come back

tiredem · 18/12/2018 20:56

Brummiesue you may prescribe it but as a nurse who GIVES it we always double check... especially oramorph as it is usually (I'm saying usually!!!!) A controlled drug.

niccyb · 18/12/2018 21:03

This all sounds very strange. Morphine requires 2 nurses to check and sign out. Also they cannot leave the person with the morphine and need to observe it being taken. Not all nurses are able to administer morphine via the cannula and in some areas, it’s a doctor who administers it.
The syringe is then discarded into the sharps bin.
Are you sure your daughter hasn’t mistaken it for paracetamol liquid or an antibiotic?
Paracetamol works well with morphine as a painkiller.
I would speak to the ward and ask them about it. The hospital policy in the NHS is that if a child has left school and is 16 or over they can go onto an adult ward and doesn’t need to be on a children’s ward.

niccyb · 18/12/2018 21:04

The nurse however should have watched her take her medicine and not left it with her alone. U should speak to the ward manager

LoubyLou1234 · 18/12/2018 21:11

In my trust (England) 16 is the age to go to adult wards unless long term/complex needs under Paeds. I think all trusts should have adolescent wards but very few do. If we accepted 16 year olds we wouldnt have beds for the little ones as we are always full.

BunsyGirl · 18/12/2018 21:15

I am so sorry that there are people questioning what your DD is saying OP. I completely believe her. I have had a lot of bad NHS experiences (both directly and via family members). Urine was lying about in bowls for more than a day next to the bed of the lady opposite me when I had DS1. The lady in question complained (she couldn’t get rid of it herself as it needed to be tested). One nurse even complained when the lady’s DH sat on her bed while helping her with her twins. The same nurse just ignored the request to get rid of the urine. There was also blood all over the toilets for most of the time I was in there and I had shout and make a fuss to get my dirty sheets cleaned. That’s just one experience. I could give you lots more.

Ollivander84 · 18/12/2018 21:17

@niccyb I was left with oramorph. Triaged in a&e, said I had taken diazepam, naproxen, paracetamol and 60mg x 4 dihydrocodeine (throughout the day!)

Triage came back with a syringe of it, gave it me and said "morphine, might make you a bit woozy" and wandered off while I took it
That was while I was waiting to be seen in a&e

Flowerpot2005 · 18/12/2018 21:25

OP in many trusts you can stay overnight as part of patient centred care. In the first instance, asked to speak to the Ward Manager or Matron, not the Nurse caring for the patient. If they do not act, contact PALS.

JoroL · 18/12/2018 22:05

Liquid morphine is not a controlled drug believe it or not, it comes on an electronic prescription - tramadol however is controlled.

The fact that the nurse did not give instructions is unacceptable

The state of the ward is also unacceptable, sheets are supposed to be changed daily, I went in early to change my OH sheets when he was staying as he didn’t want the nurses helping him move (previous issue)

Flowerpot2005 · 18/12/2018 22:21

Please also do not waste your time, or the hospitals, by sending multiple letters into multiple people.

The NHS has a process to follow, all the letters end up with the same team, complaints.

niccyb · 18/12/2018 22:21

That’s horrendous. I hope you complained.

FairyFlake45 · 18/12/2018 22:21

Very strange. My daughter had a referral from a GP to a gastroenterologist....he then refused to see her as she was under 18 (she’s nearly 17) and we then had to wait while we were re-referred to paediatrics. In terms of her treatment, I think she’s more adult than child but there is some strange “cut-off” point and it seems to differ in each dept. I don’t think your daughter should have been left in that position though, without you present tbh.

niccyb · 18/12/2018 22:23

It’s not meant to be happening like that for certain.

FairyFlake45 · 18/12/2018 22:27

I would agree except that is clearly not what is happening. My daughter, nearly 17, was referred to a gastroenterologist who then refused to see her as she was under 18. We then had to wait to be re-referred to a peodiologist....7 months for an appointment and I still feel she’s in the wrong place...
She’s taller than me, a full adult.....??

Gentlygrowingoldermale · 20/12/2018 16:43

Last summer OH had major surgery. After a post op spell in hospital she came with a bottle of Oral Morphine to take as necessary. When the bottle ran out she rang surgery to ask for more and prescription was issued after GP chat with OH which was more about 'how are things'. Willing to prescribe more if needed. District nurses told us that with Oramorph if there was pain to be relieved there was no chance OH would become addicted.

The other issues of sick bowls etc., PALs is the route to take.

Just for information, over the last 9 months all parts of the NHS has worked for us; GP Surgery, 111 (apart from one occasion), 999, A&E, Assessment Clinics and hospital ward.

MirandaGoshawk · 20/12/2018 19:33

I also believe the OP's DD about the sick bowls & blood. My DM has been in three hospitals over the past couple of years. Two were fantastic but one ward she was on was like this, and I was very angry at how she - and others - were treated. So to sum up, her experience of the NHS would be 90% amazing and wonderful, 5% incompetent, 5% unacceptable.

Onwardsandupdwards · 20/12/2018 19:40

I haven't RTFT but I don't think you're being over the top at all.

I have had many hospital stays with my DS and as a Mum you very often need to advocate for them - no matter how old they are.

That sounds like a scary situation for your 16 year old to have been in and I'm glad that she had you to support her.

There is no way she should be given a syringe of anything without having had an explanation of what she should do with it.

You sound like a lovely, caring Mum and hope your DD feels much better soon.

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 20/12/2018 20:01

I love this thread, it's really funny to see how many people don't read the full thread and wade in with their assumptions and opinions.

A couple of points to summarise...

The OP is in Scotland. In Scotland...

A 16yr old is an adult

We don't have PALS as a resource.

Oromorph is not a controlled drug

Not all trusts use enteral syringes (I had Oromorph after surgery very recently and was given in a transparent syringe, and yes, the nurse handed it to me and walked away).

England is not the only place in the world - other countries are available and some function very slightly differently.

As an ex-nurse I find it very hard to believe that sick bowls sat for 2 days uncollected, although I do believe that they could sit for a whole shift unfortunately.

Leapfrog44 · 20/12/2018 21:12

The NHS is totally splitting at the seams. By the time we are all old and infirm it will no longer be free I'm afraid. Brexit will hasten the proecss too.

gamerwidow · 21/12/2018 07:14

I love this thread, it's really funny to see how many people don't read the full thread and wade in with their assumptions and opinions
I don’t love this thread it’s very disappointing to see so many HCPs wade in with ‘it’s not a controlled drug’ when it’s not the fucking point.
Even paracetamol shouldn’t be given without the nurse making sure that that the patient knows what to do and has taken it (yes even in Scotland!)
Thank god for the HCPs on this post who do get it otherwise I’d be seriously worried about the state of nursing in the UK.