To wonder how immigration fixes pension black holes?

[nickiredcar]

Surely it just delays the problem as all the people relocating will need to be paid their pension? But it kicks the problem down the road. It's like a Ponzi scheme.

floribunda18 actually you are wrong these benefits are not paid for by the current workforce they are paid for by the current taxpayers, taxpayers who include a great many tax paying pensioners including my DH and myself when I retire, pensioners taxes also go towards working age benefits. My state pension will not come from a 'pot' that I have paid into especially now as under the new rules I will be paying 5 years worth of NI before I retire that wont go towards my pension and seriously I don't know of any pensioner or soon to be pensioner who actually thinks it does.

The British welfare state as a whole is a Ponzi scheme where people take a lot from the state, some return a portion of this by paying taxes but the vast majority is either funded by high earners who don’t need or use the services on offer or by delaying paying the costs by taking out massive debts to cripple future generations.

First tube drivers now immigrants @nickiredcar

It’s boring.

What next, if you haven’t already? Single mums on benefits taking council houses? Teachers on their cushy holidays?

@Oldsu you are thinking of yourself as an individual not as part of a group.

As an individual you may be healthy and working but you are part of a group who cost the welfare state more.

The welfare state was designed for with children and OAPs being net takers while working age people are net contributors, but it has gone wrong as there aren't enough people in the working age group to be net contributors. Plus OAPs are living for longer than what was designed. (This would actually be a success story if politicians instead of being scared of the electorate had raised the retirement age from the 1970s/1980s when they realised it was happening.)

Anyway immigration of single childless working-age adults helps to redress this balance. As we get their taxes without the expense of bringing them up and they are unlikely to have expensive healthcare costs. Also if they are European they tend to only stay for a few years so don't settle and have children here.

Oh and there are never any "pots". NI is just a tax on employees and employers. The problem is with zero hours contracts and other forms of modern working e.g. self-employment, employers are either not paying it or minimising it to keep their costs down.

AmyDowdensLeftLeftShoe sorry did you actually means to say this

As an individual you may be healthy and working but you are part of a group who cost the welfare state more er the GROUP that I am in is WORKING AGE so are you saying that working age people cost the welfare state more read my posts back I have made it clear I am still of working age

And as for the 'pot' why are you telling me this when I actually said My state pension will not come from a 'pot' that I have paid into especially now as under the new rules I will be paying 5 years worth of NI before I retire that wont go towards my pension and seriously I don't know of any pensioner or soon to be pensioner who actually thinks it does so what part of not come from a pot that I have paid into do you not understand

Please get into the habit of reading posts before replying to them.

Yes, but you do realise that your state pension isn't there as a physical pot you've built up all your life, which you then draw down on retirement?

Of course, but hypothecation (or not) wasn’t really relevant to the point i was answering anout which family types are more lucrative.

seriously I don't know of any pensioner or soon to be pensioner who actually thinks it does

I do! It sounded like you were leaning towards that point with this comment "We pay taxes all our working lives and it balances with our childhoods and old age, which cost taxpayers more."

It may (or may not) balance the amount you've paid in, but the question is always can current welfare (of which a large proportion is pension) spending be funded?

nickiredcar, you are a one-trick pony, aren't you?

What do you do for a living? What part of the state don't you benefit from?

As others have explained, the more people we have of working age who are economically active, the better. Migrants are a quick way to get this number up - they are more likely to be economically active as they'll have fewer barriers eg health etc compared to those who don't migrate - you don't tend to move countries if you can't work for whatever reason. Plus of course as pointed out there's the added bonus that we haven't spent thousands educating them ourselves. It's quite common for people to come here for a few years, stash as much as they can then bugger off to where property is cheaper to grow old. Which is fine as we get the benefit of tax take from their wages without having to pay out at either end of their period of economic usefulness.

floribunda18 oh FFS another poster who replies to comments that they haven't read or understood

I do! It sounded like you were leaning towards that point with this comment "We pay taxes all our working lives and it balances with our childhoods and old age, which cost taxpayers more."

That wasn't my comment it was ViragoKnows - it was on page 1 if it helps you find it, so please address the rest of your comment to her - not me

I'm sorry you are taking this so personally, Oldsu, it must have hit a raw nerve. I'm simply picking out comments to further the debate generally, not singling out particular posters to have one to one debates.

floribunda18 you attributed a comment to me that more or less contradicted what I actually said, and then went on to further reply to me as if I had made the second comment , if you want to further the debate then read comments before you reply to them and respond to the person actually making the comment in the first place.

Yes its hitting a raw nerve, but not because of the pension argument

There us a national insurance fund, as the national audit office will confirm. It will however run out of money relatively quickly.