I hate 111

[loosenknot]

Another frustrating experience with 111. My daughter has been prescribed strong drugs for a stomach problem and the GP said to call if any problems. It's a Saturday and sadly I had to call 111 out of hours service as she had dreadful, new, 10/10 on the pain scale stomach cramps after taking the medication, strong enough to make her cry, which subsided after 20 minutes (and might be side effect of the drug). I wanted to know whether this is normal and whether we should continue with the medication.

I told the girl reading off a computer screen what the problem was and the names of the drugs and then had to go through twenty minutes of questions - is she pregnant. Has she had a miscarriage (she's 11). I was told I'd get a call back that evening (it was already 11.50 pm so there was no evening left). When I asked if it would be sometimes within the next five hours she said yes. By 8 am still no call back I called back again and was told that they were another area of 111 so had no record and no way to access my previous call as that must have been picked up by a different area (this it turned out was a 111 not covering my area - but when I suggested just calling the 111 unit that did cover my area she said 'we don't have the ability to do that'). She had to close my case and reopen a new one 8 and a half hours after I'd called up the first time. I then had to answer all the same moronic questions again and the woman didn't even take down the name of the drugs my child had taken (until I insisted).
She said I'd get a call back sometime in the next five hours which would be 16 hours after my original call.

Surely there is something wrong with this? Can't we start some kind of campaign for reform of the f'ing system. this is not the first time they've been rubbish. normally they pack you off to a and e for a headache.
Does anyone else have terrible 111 stories to share. or a way of making proper effective noise about the rubbishness that is this service.

@Tippexy You’ve made my day

@plonkyPlink the nhs 111 service has literally saved my son's life twice. The first as a new born when he had sepsis and I had no idea he was poorly he just wouldn't feed. The second this week when I hadn't realised that he was literally choking on his vomit. So cheers to you guys for asking the 'moronic' questions

I've told this story before but about 3 years ago I rang 111 when my son had severe flu symptoms. He went downhill fast during the phone call but I was told I was just an overanxous mum. They only would send an ambulance because I insisted but put us down as non urgent. Luckily we managed to get my 6ft 2 son in the car ( we had to drag him) he stopped breathing in the car and was resuscitated in the a and e car park by a passing policeman. He had meningitis B, was in life support for a week and now has brain damage.
I actually have mini panic attacks just thinking about it

I think the 111 service is wonderful. I have only used it once when something happened to my DH which was really frightening. Yes, there were a lot of q's. I don't care. The woman on the end was kind and caring and what she advised happened to be absolutely the correct advice.

If you have ever worked on a helpline (I have for a long time) you wouldn't be so scathing

Sorry how can 'I cannot move, I cannot get out of bed' leading to being told to go to a walk in centre lead to anything other than my total contempt for the 111 system? You are better off looking symptoms up on the internet.

Because you'd be surprised at what people do or don't tell you during an assessment. They questions may seem ridiculous to you- but they are there to ensure that a safe and thorough assessment is carried out and nothing missed. Don't use it then if you think they are ridiculous, but rubbishing a system that the call takers have to follow, for your safety and theirs, seems very unfair.

@Swipetounlock

Why on Earth did you call 111 when your back pain was supposedly so bad you couldn't get out of bed? What were you expecting a doctor on the phone to do for you? What a waste of that call takers time that was!

@PlonkyPlink we're a very grateful family. Thank you .

I work for the NHS very underpaid for my expertise and we've spent time overseas where I was paid accordingly for my expertise... I'd live in the UK any day.

My son was born premature while we were living abroad and we had to pay upfront for basic life saving treatment - imagine having to have to sort finances while your premature baby is in NICU.

My daughter is recovering very well from her pneumonia, thanks to the poster who asked.

@Swipetounlock they HAVE TO ASK you about your genitals. For the same reason I had a finger stuck up my bum three times in a&e and everyone I saw asked me about genital numbness and sexual function
Not answering that means they could have missed an emergency condition which can leave you paralysed
But yeah it's fine, don't answer it

That's actually made me the most angry I have EVER been on here because if I hadn't answered the bloody question I would have been paralysed. As it was they spotted the cauda equina and I had a life changing 5hr spinal operation in order to save me being incontinent and paralysed

Can I also point out that 999 is also scripted? And they don't ask them for fun, if they don't ask correctly and you die, then the operator will be hauled up in coroners court

I think it varies massively and depending on where you live.

We recently went over to 111.

Prior to 111 you rang go surgery and got transferred to a call centre which covered three counties where a call handler took your details, triaged and then passed you on to a nurse for call back or dr if it was deemed necessary.

Now you phone 111, speak to a call handler who is either in Wrexham or Swansea, call handler, you're then triaged with every call they have had in Wales into that centre - that's important as there's two centres covering Wales. You speak to a nurse. They cannot book you an appointment as they're not allowed so they'll then pass your details onto the "local team" unless they're unsure in which case you could be waiting for another call back from another more senior nurse or on site GP. Sometimes they pass it to their on site GP not a local one who can fax a prescription to a pharmacy if they think you need one without seeing you (this is dangerous, in my case they prescribed something I shouldn't take and the diagnosis over the phone was wrong), or you get passed to the local team and speak to a nurse who then passes you to a GP who is the only one who can decide if you're to be seen or not.

Both times I've rung 111 it's taken over twelve hours of multiple calls to be seen. Both by the time I was seen I was berated for not going to a&e - once severe uti, second time tonsillitis which had spread.

I've ring needing advice and it was fine. There's pharmacists and GPs there to advise sometimes. BUT they don't appreciate not everyone lives somewhere with a pharmacy open every day never mind not 24/7.

... Rang GP surgery ..

I will happily talk to a doctor or nurse about my fanjo all day, but not some kid who can't even pronounce the technical terms.

RichSheffield I was in such pain I was crying and couldnt think straight. My flatmate suggested I call them. It wasn't 'supposed' pain, btw it was real. Hence the gas and air. It took the ambulance crew 30 minutes to get me from my bed into the ambulance

So if you ever rang 999 you would refuse to answer anything because they're not a doctor or a nurse? Don't bother ringing then 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️ you have to help yourself sometimes, what do you think he's going to do with the info about your genitals? Probably hit yes/no on a computer and carry on drinking his brew

I’m a qualified nurse, rang 111 for mum because she wouldn’t let me ring 999. They told her and myself she was wasting NHS resources and was obviously confused and she was only after attention.

Ignored mums wishes and rang 999. Consultant was horrified and said he hated the 111 service. Mum was in hospital a month. Won’t ring them again.

Ollivander in the case of my back pain I did then ring 999 and they did not ask me about my fanjo.

@Swipetounlock they don't because it's not in the script. However 111 do because they're trying to rule out cauda equina which needs an ambulance

My only symptom was a massive spike in my blood pressure. I had no UTI symptoms whatsoever.

But the symptoms of high blood pressure can also be the symptoms of a UTI.

The expectation that we should all be grateful to the NHS even when it is useless sums up precisely what is wrong with it. It is not free, all National Insurance contributors are paying for it. People who don't understand this drive me up the wall! They are not angels or special, they are just doing their job just like everyone else. Except they are rarely held accountable. "Lessons are learnt" Except they're not are they?!!

When my DS was a poorly baby I was warned off calling 111 by hosptial Dr who said you know your baby, don't waste your time calling them come straight to A&E.

I use 111 to make our of hours appointments but wouldn't now use if really worried

Ollivander, cauda whatever, as opposed to being completely incapacitated, which the GP, ambulance crew and A&E consultant all agreed DID need the ambulance. The kid on the phone couldn't even pronouce the words he was reading from his script, let alone understand them.

You're not understanding me
If you had said yes, it had affected your genitals, 111 would have triggered ambulance. That's why it's important to answer whether the person can pronounce it or not, they're trying their best to get you the best care

Cauda equina IS completely incapacitated, you need surgery within 48hrs, it's a limb threatening emergency
I've been there with the gas and air and unable to move, and screaming on morphine. They weren't too concerned at that point but once I went numb, the operation got pushed forward

The reason why I'm posting is because some people might think it's fine not to answer the question, but if you are having that symptom, and you refuse to answer, and you then go off that - you're risking paralysis

I hate 111. Twice I've called them in pain, the first time luckily I was ok after a visit to the doctor, the second time was a life or death situation (I didn't realise this) which was so bloody obvious by my symptoms, they said see your doctor (who didn't Open for three hours) I ignored them and went straight to a & e. Two weeks in hospital, two major operations. It was touch and go for a while.

I am a nhs 111 call handler and it annoys me how much people complain about the service. We know we are not perfect but the questions are written by medical professions using clinical knowledge...... and they get updated every so often. The pathway system is quite complex and even the 999 call handlers use the same. Now the question about your child being pregnant, well I’m sorry but we have to ask. Any female from ages of 11-55 can get pregnant. It’s awkward enough as it is to ask questions like that, believe me. I even say to them I’m very sorry to ask but has your child been affected by drugs or alcohol etc. Every question we ask is for a reason even though it sounds silly. You said that you were calling to ask whether she should stop the antibiotics but as we are not doctors we can’t answer that. We could put you through to a clinician But as she has symptoms we have to assess her just to rule anything out. It can be annoying having to do a reassessment but cases can get lost . I have no idea how but it’s not our fault. Obviously some sort of IT problem but it’s not our fault we can’t find the case! You have people calling from all over the country we don’t just take calls from your area. When somebody calls back and I can’t find the case i have to get a supervisor to have a look. If they can’t find it they just say it could be that they got through to a different call centre. But tbh I don’t see how the cases get lost but they do!

I also like to point out that we just don’t read from a script. We have been trained to watch out for specifics during the call such as background noise, someone in pain, assessing someone’s breathing etc. If I feel that an outcome isn’t appropriate I will flag it up. If i can hear someone rolling on the floor in pain-I definitely know they need and ambulance but if the assessment doesn’t trigger it I will ask clinical for their help. Or if u get a 92 year old and I get an outcome of see your gp in three working days or whatever...I will never just leave it as that. I’m not having an elderly person wait that long for help!

You don’t realise actually how many people call....... thousands each day. When it’s a bank holiday or weekend it’s double. Do you think that everyone that calls gets seen immediately by the gp? I repeat 111 is a non emergency number. If you can’t move/walk/rolling in pain then why the hell are you phoning 111? If you need the paramedics or ambulance service Then call them! We don’t send and ambulance just because you want one! We have to do an assessment. If you are that concerned about your child why aren’t you taking them to a&e? You get parents calling about their baby that’s struggling to breath fgs! Why are they calling 111. And then I get the opposite.....I sometimes triage people and they go, oh I thought you’d send ambulance. I mean if you want an ambulance then why aren’t you calling them?

The reasons why you speak to a call handler first rather than a nurse or doctor is because we simply don’t have an unlimited supply of those in this country and even if you speak to one of our clinicians you still have to do the same assessment.....( the questions are the same!) except they can override any decision and give medication advice.

If 111 was to go, then how would a&e cope?! Not everyone needs to see a gp straight away, that’s why we have time frames within 2hrs, 6hrs, 12hrs etc some things can really wait until you see your doctor. And if you’re calling during the day unless you need to go to a&e or need and ambulance we can only really refer you to your gp.

Also you do know that we have do to deal with repeat callers who call everyday for no reason, mental health callers and suicidal callers.

I repeat if you are so concerned about someone, then take them to hospital or call 999. We can only do our best over the phone.

When my DS was a poorly baby I was warned off calling 111 by hosptial Dr who said you know your baby, don't waste your time calling them come straight to A&E.

That applies to everyone who recognises they need A&E though. It's not the doctor slating 111, they are merely telling you if the baby is worse then they need A&E. That's totally normal. Doesn't make 111 shite, it just means they are not the appropriate go to in all situations.