..to be worried that 1/3 of women aren’t in employment and economically vulnerable?

[windygallows]

ONS stats (latest from 2013) state that women of working age (16-64) only 67% are in the labour market, therefore 33% of women not in employment. That’s 1/3! Moreover of the 67% working, 42% of them work part time.

So that means it breaks down like this:
Women 16-64
Not in employment – 33%
Working part time – 28%
Working full time – 39%
Total - 100%

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/alldatausedinthewomeninthelabourmarketreport

Now I know there are a million reasons for these stats from women’s role as primary childcare provider to challenges women face finding flexible working, the glass ceiling, lower paid roles for women. I get it. And many on MN will inevitably remind me about the beneficial role women obvs make outside the labour market, from voluntary work to caring. And that work is not the be all and end all. And nor am I advocating for a life of constant work either.

But what these stats mean on the most basic, practical level is that the MAJORITY of women probably cannot cover their cost of living (either they don’t have an income or a limited income through pt work) and are probably reliant on someone for their sustenance – a partner, a parent, the government, family savings, their savings. This means the majority of women are economically vulnerable. Wouldn’t you say so?

Of course there will always be anomalies to this rule - the highly paid IT consultant who will say she can survive on her part-time salary or the woman with a trust fund. But these people are outside the norm. These stats tell me that the majority of women need someone else to support them financially. It’s scary!

PS - As an aside In 1959 52.9% of women were in the labour market and it’s now 67% - not a hugely dramatic difference

“It should not be the case F1ame that SAH women pick up the pieces for burnt out husbands. Surely this means that it is even more important that the wives work so there is less pressure on high achieving husbands”

Mrs, again I don’t disagree with you, but that’s not how it pans out sometimes. Even a wife going into a job that is considered well paid, might barely make a dent in the overall picture if the DH is a very high earner. DC do need at least one parent to be present and aware of what’s going on for them day to day. The more money you have, the more you take on quite often and then this becomes the “norm,” even though you know it’s not.

Where are all these graduate jobs? I work in low paid unskilled work and most of the female staff have degrees.

Tbh one thing that doesn’t sit very comfortably with me Is posters bemoaning the fact that caring responsibilities aren’t valued, and then in the next breath talking about ‘grunt work’ and ‘wage slaves’ and pretty much dismissing anyone ‘unfortunate’ enough to actually need to do the normal Adult thing of going to work.

OP I agree with you. Some women will be in education, some really choose to not be in paid employment, but some will be forced out of the labour market because, essentially, most jobs aren’t geared towards women as carers. And if you’re not in the labour market, then you are financially vulnerable. It is a worry.

I studied, I did postgrad qualifications and was a relatively high earning professional until 4 years ago, when I left because I couldn’t resolve my work and home responsibilities (children). You could say it was my choice to leave, but I wouldn’t have left if the system was a bit more flexible. I felt forced out. As a result, my income has fallen to a fifth of what it was (I still work now, but not in my career). Which is ok at the moment because my husband earns enough to mean we can stay in our home and eat and stuff. But more worryingly, I’ve now not got a pension, so my old age is reliant on my husband. I’ve lost my death in service grant, so my family is not financially protected from my death. I’ve jumped off the career ladder and I don’t think I’d ever be able to get back to the level I left at if I tried once the kids are older. So my lifelong earnings have fallen really significantly through taking a career and oansion break.

My colleagues at the time thought I was insane to leave. I felt backed into a corner. Yes, it was still my choice, but it was a choice between kicking myself in the head or the arse.

I wish there was better support for women with disabilities to carve out flexible work. The amount of wasted talent because of various access issues is frustrating.

Equally important is the need for recognition that some people who are disabled or chronically ill will not be able to be financially self support in our society as it is currently organised. Some people never will at all, no matter how things could be restructured. And that this is ok and no reflection on self worth.

We really need to separate a person's worth from their economic viability. It is completely disablist.

Men typically don't feel pressured into leaving work because they now have children.

Seems to me that the pressure comes from everyone (society, the male partner, other women and themselves). I think it takes a lot of strength to push back on that.

almond there are graduate jobs across all sectors - some are more bouyant than others and of course just getting a degree doesn't guarantee you a job. You still need to build experience and a whole host of transferable skills - and actual apply them!

The fact that there are graduates working in non-graduate roles doesn't indicate a lack of graduate jobs. It's far more multi-faceted than that.

I am really shocked that a third of women are not working.

The women where I work do have transferable skills and experience.

If there were so many unfilled graduate positions, they would be taking graduates without experience anyway.

I’m not shocked at all; I’m surprised it isn’t higher in a way.

I'm not so sure that 'graduate job' is a meaningful phrase across the board anymore. Plenty of graduate jobs start on £18-20k, as they did 15 years ago - and they don't all have rapid salary progression.

So renting still eats up a huge chunk of your money every month for years, thanks to disproportionate housing costs. Additionally, it's only a matter of time before the bubble of artificially low food prices bursts and catches up to a more realistic reflection of what food actually costs to produce.

I think the other danger is women who have children right after/during education and don't get work work experience.

It is very hard for these women to get into employment when kids are older, as they have no experience of working and obvs a big 'gap' in their cv. There is a strong likelihood that these women will never work and they are often starting from a very low family income base.

almond again, not that simple. Like I said, some sectors and geographical areas are more bouyant than others, some graduates are more employable and some subjects offer greater opportunities.

I've not made it up. Those are the figures. Two of the biggest myths surrounding graduate employment are that there are too many graduates and not enough jobs and that all the graduate jobs are in London. If you look at the figures both are proven to be untrue.

OP - as PP have said, it’s not surprising that 25-33% of women 16-64 are not in employment because the same applies to men.

In fact, there are more men unemployed than women if these stats are accurate!

I am finding this debate really interesting. I totally agree with Hubanmao that the key to having a more equal society with regard to work should be proper pay and conditions for all workers. That will only happen when work for all (including those with disabilities) is seen as a right. Structures would then have to be put in place to support working families. All schools should be tasked with providing wrap around care.
Once a woman gives up work to be the at home 'family/husband support' she is giving up such a lot and it becomes so much harder to return to her career. it is important to encourage women to take the long term view and hang onto a job in spite of short term difficulties.

I am sure you are right F1ame that there are more unemployed males but that means it must be essential that both men and women work so that couple are not completely dependent on the man to be the sole breadwinner.

F1ame - the figures for male employment are on the original link I provided. Male employment has dropped a lot from the 1970s and is now at around 76/7% but female employment is 66% and there are far, far more women working PT.

Employment rates1 for men and women aged 16-64, 1971 to 2013, UK

	Percentage (seasonally adjusted)
Men	Women

Jan-Mar 1971 92.1 52.8
Feb-Apr 1971 91.9 52.7
Mar-May 1971 91.8 52.7
Apr-Jun 1971 91.7 52.7
May-Jul 1971 91.6 52.7
Jun-Aug 1971 91.4 52.7
Jul-Sep 1971 91.2 52.7
Aug-Oct 1971 91.0 52.6
Sep-Nov 1971 90.8 52.6
Oct-Dec 1971 90.8 52.6
Nov-Jan 1972 90.8 52.7
Dec-Feb 1972 90.9 52.8
Jan-Mar 1972 91.0 52.9
Feb-Apr 1972 91.1 53.0
Mar-May 1972 91.1 53.1
Apr-Jun 1972 91.1 53.1
May-Jul 1972 91.0 53.2
Jun-Aug 1972 91.0 53.2
Jul-Sep 1972 91.0 53.3
Aug-Oct 1972 91.1 53.4
Sep-Nov 1972 91.2 53.5
Oct-Dec 1972 91.2 53.6
Nov-Jan 1973 91.4 53.8
Dec-Feb 1973 91.6 54.0
Jan-Mar 1973 91.8 54.2
Feb-Apr 1973 91.9 54.3
Mar-May 1973 91.9 54.5
Apr-Jun 1973 91.9 54.5
May-Jul 1973 91.7 54.5
Jun-Aug 1973 91.6 54.6
Jul-Sep 1973 91.6 54.7
Aug-Oct 1973 91.5 54.8
Sep-Nov 1973 91.5 54.9
Oct-Dec 1973 91.4 54.9
Nov-Jan 1974 91.3 55.0
Dec-Feb 1974 91.2 55.1
Jan-Mar 1974 91.1 55.1
Feb-Apr 1974 91.0 55.2
Mar-May 1974 90.9 55.2
Apr-Jun 1974 90.9 55.3
May-Jul 1974 90.9 55.4
Jun-Aug 1974 91.0 55.5
Jul-Sep 1974 90.9 55.6
Aug-Oct 1974 90.9 55.7
Sep-Nov 1974 90.8 55.7
Oct-Dec 1974 90.8 55.7
Nov-Jan 1975 90.6 55.7
Dec-Feb 1975 90.5 55.7
Jan-Mar 1975 90.4 55.6
Feb-Apr 1975 90.2 55.6
Mar-May 1975 90.1 55.6
Apr-Jun 1975 90.1 55.6
May-Jul 1975 90.0 55.6
Jun-Aug 1975 89.9 55.6
Jul-Sep 1975 89.8 55.6
Aug-Oct 1975 89.7 55.5
Sep-Nov 1975 89.6 55.5
Oct-Dec 1975 89.5 55.5
Nov-Jan 1976 89.3 55.4
Dec-Feb 1976 89.2 55.4
Jan-Mar 1976 89.1 55.4
Feb-Apr 1976 89.0 55.3
Mar-May 1976 88.9 55.3
Apr-Jun 1976 88.8 55.3
May-Jul 1976 88.8 55.3
Jun-Aug 1976 88.7 55.3
Jul-Sep 1976 88.6 55.3
Aug-Oct 1976 88.6 55.3
Sep-Nov 1976 88.5 55.3
Oct-Dec 1976 88.5 55.3
Nov-Jan 1977 88.5 55.3
Dec-Feb 1977 88.4 55.4
Jan-Mar 1977 88.3 55.4
Feb-Apr 1977 88.3 55.4
Mar-May 1977 88.2 55.4
Apr-Jun 1977 88.1 55.4
May-Jul 1977 88.0 55.4
Jun-Aug 1977 88.0 55.4
Jul-Sep 1977 87.9 55.4
Aug-Oct 1977 87.8 55.5
Sep-Nov 1977 87.8 55.5
Oct-Dec 1977 87.7 55.5
Nov-Jan 1978 87.7 55.5
Dec-Feb 1978 87.7 55.6
Jan-Mar 1978 87.6 55.6
Feb-Apr 1978 87.5 55.7
Mar-May 1978 87.5 55.8
Apr-Jun 1978 87.4 55.8
May-Jul 1978 87.4 55.8
Jun-Aug 1978 87.3 55.9
Jul-Sep 1978 87.3 55.9
Aug-Oct 1978 87.3 56.0
Sep-Nov 1978 87.4 56.1
Oct-Dec 1978 87.4 56.2
Nov-Jan 1979 87.4 56.3
Dec-Feb 1979 87.4 56.3
Jan-Mar 1979 87.3 56.3
Feb-Apr 1979 87.3 56.3
Mar-May 1979 87.2 56.4
Apr-Jun 1979 87.2 56.5
May-Jul 1979 87.1 56.6
Jun-Aug 1979 87.1 56.6
Jul-Sep 1979 87.0 56.7
Aug-Oct 1979 86.9 56.7
Sep-Nov 1979 86.9 56.8
Oct-Dec 1979 86.7 56.9
Nov-Jan 1980 86.6 56.9
Dec-Feb 1980 86.4 56.9
Jan-Mar 1980 86.3 56.9
Feb-Apr 1980 86.1 56.8
Mar-May 1980 86.0 56.8
Apr-Jun 1980 85.7 56.8
May-Jul 1980 85.5 56.8
Jun-Aug 1980 85.2 56.7
Jul-Sep 1980 84.9 56.6
Aug-Oct 1980 84.5 56.5
Sep-Nov 1980 84.1 56.4
Oct-Dec 1980 83.7 56.3
Nov-Jan 1981 83.4 56.2
Dec-Feb 1981 83.0 56.1
Jan-Mar 1981 82.7 56.0
Feb-Apr 1981 82.4 55.9
Mar-May 1981 82.1 55.8
Apr-Jun 1981 81.8 55.7
May-Jul 1981 81.5 55.6
Jun-Aug 1981 81.3 55.5
Jul-Sep 1981 81.1 55.5
Aug-Oct 1981 80.8 55.4
Sep-Nov 1981 80.6 55.3
Oct-Dec 1981 80.4 55.3
Nov-Jan 1982 80.2 55.2
Dec-Feb 1982 80.0 55.1
Jan-Mar 1982 79.9 55.0
Feb-Apr 1982 79.8 55.0
Mar-May 1982 79.7 54.9
Apr-Jun 1982 79.5 54.8
May-Jul 1982 79.3 54.7
Jun-Aug 1982 79.1 54.6
Jul-Sep 1982 78.9 54.5
Aug-Oct 1982 78.7 54.4
Sep-Nov 1982 78.5 54.2
Oct-Dec 1982 78.2 54.1
Nov-Jan 1983 78.1 54.0
Dec-Feb 1983 77.9 53.9
Jan-Mar 1983 77.8 53.8
Feb-Apr 1983 77.6 53.7
Mar-May 1983 77.5 53.8
Apr-Jun 1983 77.4 53.8
May-Jul 1983 77.4 54.0
Jun-Aug 1983 77.5 54.1
Jul-Sep 1983 77.6 54.3
Aug-Oct 1983 77.7 54.5
Sep-Nov 1983 77.8 54.7
Oct-Dec 1983 77.8 54.8
Nov-Jan 1984 77.9 55.0
Dec-Feb 1984 77.9 55.1
Jan-Mar 1984 78.0 55.1
Feb-Apr 1984 78.0 55.2
Mar-May 1984 78.1 55.3
Apr-Jun 1984 78.1 55.4
May-Jul 1984 78.1 55.5
Jun-Aug 1984 78.1 55.6
Jul-Sep 1984 78.2 55.6
Aug-Oct 1984 78.2 55.7
Sep-Nov 1984 78.3 55.8
Oct-Dec 1984 78.3 56.0
Nov-Jan 1985 78.3 56.1
Dec-Feb 1985 78.3 56.2
Jan-Mar 1985 78.4 56.2
Feb-Apr 1985 78.4 56.3
Mar-May 1985 78.4 56.4
Apr-Jun 1985 78.3 56.5
May-Jul 1985 78.3 56.6
Jun-Aug 1985 78.3 56.7
Jul-Sep 1985 78.2 56.8
Aug-Oct 1985 78.2 56.9
Sep-Nov 1985 78.2 57.0
Oct-Dec 1985 78.1 57.0
Nov-Jan 1986 78.1 57.1
Dec-Feb 1986 78.0 57.2
Jan-Mar 1986 78.0 57.2
Feb-Apr 1986 77.9 57.3
Mar-May 1986 77.9 57.4
Apr-Jun 1986 77.8 57.5
May-Jul 1986 77.8 57.5
Jun-Aug 1986 77.8 57.6
Jul-Sep 1986 77.9 57.7
Aug-Oct 1986 77.9 57.8
Sep-Nov 1986 77.9 58.0
Oct-Dec 1986 77.9 58.1
Nov-Jan 1987 77.9 58.2
Dec-Feb 1987 77.9 58.2
Jan-Mar 1987 77.9 58.3
Feb-Apr 1987 78.0 58.4
Mar-May 1987 78.2 58.5
Apr-Jun 1987 78.4 58.7
May-Jul 1987 78.6 58.9
Jun-Aug 1987 78.8 59.1
Jul-Sep 1987 79.0 59.3
Aug-Oct 1987 79.2 59.4
Sep-Nov 1987 79.4 59.6
Oct-Dec 1987 79.6 59.9
Nov-Jan 1988 79.8 60.0
Dec-Feb 1988 80.0 60.2
Jan-Mar 1988 80.3 60.3
Feb-Apr 1988 80.4 60.4
Mar-May 1988 80.6 60.6
Apr-Jun 1988 80.7 60.7
May-Jul 1988 80.8 60.9
Jun-Aug 1988 80.9 61.1
Jul-Sep 1988 81.0 61.3
Aug-Oct 1988 81.1 61.5
Sep-Nov 1988 81.2 61.7
Oct-Dec 1988 81.4 61.8
Nov-Jan 1989 81.5 62.1
Dec-Feb 1989 81.7 62.2
Jan-Mar 1989 81.9 62.4
Feb-Apr 1989 82.1 62.6
Mar-May 1989 82.2 62.7
Apr-Jun 1989 82.3 62.7
May-Jul 1989 82.3 62.7
Jun-Aug 1989 82.4 62.7
Jul-Sep 1989 82.4 62.8
Aug-Oct 1989 82.4 62.9
Sep-Nov 1989 82.5 63.0
Oct-Dec 1989 82.5 63.1
Nov-Jan 1990 82.5 63.2
Dec-Feb 1990 82.5 63.2
Jan-Mar 1990 82.4 63.2
Feb-Apr 1990 82.4 63.2
Mar-May 1990 82.4 63.3
Apr-Jun 1990 82.4 63.4
May-Jul 1990 82.3 63.5
Jun-Aug 1990 82.2 63.5
Jul-Sep 1990 82.1 63.4
Aug-Oct 1990 81.9 63.3
Sep-Nov 1990 81.7 63.3
Oct-Dec 1990 81.4 63.3
Nov-Jan 1991 81.1 63.2
Dec-Feb 1991 80.8 63.1
Jan-Mar 1991 80.5 62.9
Feb-Apr 1991 80.2 62.8
Mar-May 1991 79.9 62.7
Apr-Jun 1991 79.5 62.6
May-Jul 1991 79.1 62.5
Jun-Aug 1991 78.7 62.4
Jul-Sep 1991 78.4 62.3
Aug-Oct 1991 78.1 62.2
Sep-Nov 1991 77.8 62.1
Oct-Dec 1991 77.6 62.1
Nov-Jan 1992 77.3 62.0
Dec-Feb 1992 77.2 61.9
Jan-Mar 1992 76.9 62.0
Feb-Apr 1992 76.7 62.0
Mar-May 1992 76.5 62.0
Apr-Jun 1992 76.4 61.8
May-Jul 1992 76.3 61.7
Jun-Aug 1992 76.2 61.8
Jul-Sep 1992 76.1 61.8
Aug-Oct 1992 75.8 61.8
Sep-Nov 1992 75.6 61.8
Oct-Dec 1992 75.3 61.8
Nov-Jan 1993 75.3 61.7
Dec-Feb 1993 75.2 61.6
Jan-Mar 1993 75.2 61.6
Feb-Apr 1993 75.0 61.7
Mar-May 1993 75.0 61.8
Apr-Jun 1993 75.1 61.8
May-Jul 1993 75.1 61.8
Jun-Aug 1993 75.1 61.8
Jul-Sep 1993 75.1 62.0
Aug-Oct 1993 75.1 61.9
Sep-Nov 1993 75.2 61.9
Oct-Dec 1993 75.1 61.9
Nov-Jan 1994 75.1 61.9
Dec-Feb 1994 75.4 61.9
Jan-Mar 1994 75.5 62.1
Feb-Apr 1994 75.6 62.2
Mar-May 1994 75.5 62.2
Apr-Jun 1994 75.5 62.2
May-Jul 1994 75.7 62.4
Jun-Aug 1994 75.7 62.3
Jul-Sep 1994 75.9 62.3
Aug-Oct 1994 76.0 62.2
Sep-Nov 1994 76.0 62.2
Oct-Dec 1994 76.0 62.2
Nov-Jan 1995 76.0 62.1
Dec-Feb 1995 76.0 62.3
Jan-Mar 1995 76.1 62.5
Feb-Apr 1995 76.1 62.5
Mar-May 1995 76.3 62.5
Apr-Jun 1995 76.3 62.7
May-Jul 1995 76.3 62.8
Jun-Aug 1995 76.4 62.9
Jul-Sep 1995 76.4 62.9
Aug-Oct 1995 76.4 63.0
Sep-Nov 1995 76.5 63.1
Oct-Dec 1995 76.7 63.3
Nov-Jan 1996 76.6 63.5
Dec-Feb 1996 76.5 63.4
Jan-Mar 1996 76.5 63.4
Feb-Apr 1996 76.5 63.4
Mar-May 1996 76.6 63.4
Apr-Jun 1996 76.5 63.4
May-Jul 1996 76.6 63.3
Jun-Aug 1996 76.7 63.4
Jul-Sep 1996 76.7 63.5
Aug-Oct 1996 76.7 63.7
Sep-Nov 1996 77.0 63.7
Oct-Dec 1996 77.0 63.8
Nov-Jan 1997 77.2 63.8
Dec-Feb 1997 77.4 64.0
Jan-Mar 1997 77.6 64.0
Feb-Apr 1997 77.8 64.1
Mar-May 1997 77.7 64.2
Apr-Jun 1997 77.8 64.3
May-Jul 1997 77.7 64.3
Jun-Aug 1997 77.8 64.2
Jul-Sep 1997 77.9 64.3
Aug-Oct 1997 78.1 64.3
Sep-Nov 1997 78.1 64.3
Oct-Dec 1997 78.2 64.3
Nov-Jan 1998 78.3 64.2
Dec-Feb 1998 78.4 64.3
Jan-Mar 1998 78.3 64.4
Feb-Apr 1998 78.2 64.5
Mar-May 1998 78.3 64.4
Apr-Jun 1998 78.3 64.4
May-Jul 1998 78.4 64.6
Jun-Aug 1998 78.5 64.7
Jul-Sep 1998 78.5 64.8
Aug-Oct 1998 78.4 65.0
Sep-Nov 1998 78.6 65.1
Oct-Dec 1998 78.6 65.1
Nov-Jan 1999 78.5 65.3
Dec-Feb 1999 78.6 65.2
Jan-Mar 1999 78.6 65.2
Feb-Apr 1999 78.6 65.2
Mar-May 1999 78.6 65.1
Apr-Jun 1999 78.7 65.2
May-Jul 1999 78.8 65.2
Jun-Aug 1999 78.9 65.3
Jul-Sep 1999 78.9 65.4
Aug-Oct 1999 79.0 65.3
Sep-Nov 1999 79.1 65.5
Oct-Dec 1999 79.1 65.6
Nov-Jan 2000 79.1 65.5
Dec-Feb 2000 78.9 65.5
Jan-Mar 2000 79.1 65.6
Feb-Apr 2000 79.2 65.6
Mar-May 2000 79.3 65.7
Apr-Jun 2000 79.2 65.9
May-Jul 2000 79.3 66.0
Jun-Aug 2000 79.3 66.2
Jul-Sep 2000 79.3 66.1
Aug-Oct 2000 79.2 66.0
Sep-Nov 2000 79.1 65.9
Oct-Dec 2000 79.2 65.9
Nov-Jan 2001 79.4 66.1
Dec-Feb 2001 79.3 66.1
Jan-Mar 2001 79.5 65.9
Feb-Apr 2001 79.4 66.1
Mar-May 2001 79.5 66.1
Apr-Jun 2001 79.2 66.3
May-Jul 2001 79.2 66.1
Jun-Aug 2001 79.3 66.0
Jul-Sep 2001 79.2 65.9
Aug-Oct 2001 79.2 66.0
Sep-Nov 2001 79.2 66.2
Oct-Dec 2001 79.1 66.2
Nov-Jan 2002 79.0 66.1
Dec-Feb 2002 78.9 66.1
Jan-Mar 2002 78.9 66.1
Feb-Apr 2002 78.9 66.3
Mar-May 2002 79.0 66.4
Apr-Jun 2002 79.0 66.5
May-Jul 2002 78.9 66.3
Jun-Aug 2002 79.0 66.5
Jul-Sep 2002 78.8 66.4
Aug-Oct 2002 79.1 66.4
Sep-Nov 2002 79.2 66.4
Oct-Dec 2002 79.4 66.4
Nov-Jan 2003 79.3 66.3
Dec-Feb 2003 79.0 66.3
Jan-Mar 2003 79.0 66.4
Feb-Apr 2003 79.1 66.4
Mar-May 2003 79.3 66.4
Apr-Jun 2003 79.5 66.4
May-Jul 2003 79.4 66.4
Jun-Aug 2003 79.3 66.3
Jul-Sep 2003 79.3 66.4
Aug-Oct 2003 79.2 66.5
Sep-Nov 2003 79.1 66.6
Oct-Dec 2003 79.0 66.6
Nov-Jan 2004 79.2 66.8
Dec-Feb 2004 79.3 66.8
Jan-Mar 2004 79.3 66.8
Feb-Apr 2004 79.3 66.7
Mar-May 2004 79.3 66.6
Apr-Jun 2004 79.2 66.6
May-Jul 2004 79.2 66.5
Jun-Aug 2004 79.2 66.5
Jul-Sep 2004 79.2 66.6
Aug-Oct 2004 79.2 66.6
Sep-Nov 2004 79.3 66.8
Oct-Dec 2004 79.3 66.8
Nov-Jan 2005 79.3 66.9
Dec-Feb 2005 79.3 67.1
Jan-Mar 2005 79.3 66.9
Feb-Apr 2005 79.1 66.8
Mar-May 2005 79.0 66.8
Apr-Jun 2005 79.0 66.8
May-Jul 2005 79.0 66.9
Jun-Aug 2005 79.0 67.1
Jul-Sep 2005 79.1 67.0
Aug-Oct 2005 78.9 66.9
Sep-Nov 2005 78.8 66.7
Oct-Dec 2005 78.7 66.6
Nov-Jan 2006 78.8 66.7
Dec-Feb 2006 78.8 66.8
Jan-Mar 2006 78.7 67.1
Feb-Apr 2006 78.9 66.9
Mar-May 2006 78.7 66.9
Apr-Jun 2006 78.7 67.0
May-Jul 2006 78.9 66.9
Jun-Aug 2006 79.0 67.1
Jul-Sep 2006 78.9 66.7
Aug-Oct 2006 78.9 66.7
Sep-Nov 2006 78.8 66.7
Oct-Dec 2006 78.8 66.7
Nov-Jan 2007 78.8 66.5
Dec-Feb 2007 78.7 66.3
Jan-Mar 2007 78.6 66.4
Feb-Apr 2007 78.7 66.4
Mar-May 2007 78.9 66.5
Apr-Jun 2007 78.8 66.5
May-Jul 2007 78.8 66.5
Jun-Aug 2007 78.8 66.5
Jul-Sep 2007 78.8 66.6
Aug-Oct 2007 78.9 66.7
Sep-Nov 2007 79.0 66.7
Oct-Dec 2007 79.0 66.8
Nov-Jan 2008 78.9 66.9
Dec-Feb 2008 79.0 67.0
Jan-Mar 2008 79.0 67.0
Feb-Apr 2008 79.0 67.0
Mar-May 2008 79.0 67.1
Apr-Jun 2008 78.8 67.0
May-Jul 2008 78.7 66.9
Jun-Aug 2008 78.3 66.8
Jul-Sep 2008 78.2 66.7
Aug-Oct 2008 78.0 66.6
Sep-Nov 2008 78.0 66.6
Oct-Dec 2008 77.9 66.5
Nov-Jan 2009 77.7 66.6
Dec-Feb 2009 77.4 66.3
Jan-Mar 2009 77.2 66.2
Feb-Apr 2009 76.9 65.9
Mar-May 2009 76.4 65.8
Apr-Jun 2009 76.0 65.8
May-Jul 2009 75.7 65.6
Jun-Aug 2009 75.6 65.8
Jul-Sep 2009 75.5 65.8
Aug-Oct 2009 75.4 65.9
Sep-Nov 2009 75.4 65.9
Oct-Dec 2009 75.3 65.9
Nov-Jan 2010 75.0 65.8
Dec-Feb 2010 75.0 65.7
Jan-Mar 2010 74.9 65.6
Feb-Apr 2010 75.0 65.6
Mar-May 2010 75.3 65.5
Apr-Jun 2010 75.4 65.5
May-Jul 2010 75.7 65.6
Jun-Aug 2010 75.8 65.6
Jul-Sep 2010 76.0 65.6
Aug-Oct 2010 75.8 65.4
Sep-Nov 2010 75.7 65.3
Oct-Dec 2010 75.8 65.3
Nov-Jan 2011 75.8 65.4
Dec-Feb 2011 75.9 65.6
Jan-Mar 2011 75.8 65.6
Feb-Apr 2011 75.9 65.4
Mar-May 2011 75.8 65.5
Apr-Jun 2011 75.7 65.5
May-Jul 2011 75.4 65.4
Jun-Aug 2011 75.3 65.4
Jul-Sep 2011 75.1 65.4
Aug-Oct 2011 75.2 65.5
Sep-Nov 2011 75.2 65.4
Oct-Dec 2011 75.4 65.4
Nov-Jan 2012 75.4 65.4
Dec-Feb 2012 75.7 65.4
Jan-Mar 2012 75.8 65.6
Feb-Apr 2012 75.9 65.6
Mar-May 2012 76.0 65.7
Apr-Jun 2012 76.3 65.8
May-Jul 2012 76.3 66.1
Jun-Aug 2012 76.5 66.1
Jul-Sep 2012 76.5 66.0
Aug-Oct 2012 76.5 66.1
Sep-Nov 2012 76.6 66.3
Oct-Dec 2012 76.6 66.5
Nov-Jan 2013 76.5 66.6
Dec-Feb 2013 76.3 66.6
Jan-Mar 2013 76.2 66.6
Feb-Apr 2013 76.3 66.7
Mar-May 2013 76.2 66.6
Apr-Jun 2013 76.2 66.7
Source: Labour Force Survey person datasets

Oops I win the award for most irritating structured hard to read post. But in essence the figures from 2013 show
Men - 76.2%
women - 66.7%
Again, though, a huge chunk of those women work p-time.

Mrs - I understand your logic and your hope for a fair and equal society, but I would hate for my DC to be in “wraparound care” at school. The normalising of that would be an equally depressing society, as far as I’m concerned, just depressing in a different way.
Yes you are “giving up a lot” if you leave work to have DC, but you can also gain massively in other ways. It really depends on your personality and how you look at things. There is no “should” about it.

Can you supply the figures for how many graduate jobs there are then and how many graduates?

is wraparound care such a bad thing though? My eldest DC does drama, art & football after school
& pesters me to do more clubs after school. He’s started to ask me to take him to breakfast club even though i have no need too, he wants to be with his friends all the time plus I think he prefers their breakfast selection!

Ok windy, I see the 10% difference. But when you factor in the reality that women are biologically the childbearing sex, then a 10% gap is nothing really is it? Many of those women will maybe be on extended maternity or at home with young pre-school DC because this is what they themselves want to do.

In fact the 10% difference suggests to me that the reality is that too many women are increasingly being squeezed into “doing it all” because I very much doubt there only a 10% gap between the average amount of childcare / household “mental load” between men and women in the UK.

cabig - of course some children will love some aspects of wraparound school care etc, but obviously others won’t and a society that insinuates families “should” make that kind of choice (ie, both parents “should” be at work, children “should” therefore be in childcare) can be equally as restrictive as one that forces women to SAH. Just in a different way. Nothing is perfect - short-term or long-term and there are no guarantees of anything really whether you’re working or not.,

I agree that in an ideal work no one should be forced to use wraparound care if they don’t want to but I also think we need to have more help for women that want to.

You're right F1ame - but it's not just the gap between men and women - it's the fact that so many women work part-time. Do you not think it's worrying that only 39% of women work full time? That means 61% of women are on a part-time income or none at all.

A key tenet of the feminist movement was to make women less reliant on men's income and I feel like we are very, very far from being there.