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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I’m at the end of my tether with bedtime

50 replies

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 19:22

I know I am massively UR.

LP to a 3 year old DD who has a diagnosis with Developmental Delay of no known cause. They don’t think she’s autistic although I think she probably is.

She has extreme tantrums. She’s not violent, but once she’s in one there’s no calming her at all. She can go for an hour or longer, screaming and crying.

Tonights is because she was brushing her teeth and kept deliberately spitting at me, so I warned her then when she did it again she ended up in timeout. Only she won’t sit in timeout, she comes off and runs around laughing. I ignore her but she doesn’t care. So I resorted to putting her in her room behind a babygate, I thought with her being on the smaller side she’d not work out how to get out of her room but she does, and then just sits in the hall crying. One gate on top of the other didn’t work as she just climbed up the higher one and got out. She’s also worked out the mechanism on both gates, and the one on the kitchen (all different brands) so has basic free rein of the house which I can’t do.

I am done. Bedtime is hell, we’re never in bed before midnight. She is tired, I know she is, but she’ll scream and cry until she wears herself out. I do bath, teeth, story, medicine (asthmatic), lights out for 7pm but as soon as I leave she screams and cries. If I leave the light on it makes no difference. If I sit with her until she falls asleep she bites, kicks and pulls my hair.

Earlier bedtime makes no difference and if I put her down later then she stays up until the early hours. I need her to be up at 6.45am on 3 days a week, and 7.45am the other days apart from Sunday but I just get the same in reverse for getting her up, she screams and cries. She won’t sleep anywhere but her bed so it doesn’t help. And she sometimes bites me to go back to bed. I have been late for work 3 times this week already.

I am done. No-one cares. My neighbours have complained to my Social Worker at my insistence, and she just shrugs and says it’s life with SN children. No-one cares because at Nursery she’s behind but happy and content. I’ve been told not to film her because it’s a violation of her privacy, I don’t intend to put it on SM I just want to show people what she’s like but I’m not allowed to.

I have no help at all. She’s not allowed to see her dad for more than 2 hours a week (court ordered) and if she stays with anyone other me she doesn’t sleep for weeks.

I am done. I just want to sleep for more than a few hours a night. Nothing is working. The current tantrum has been ongoing 40 minutes now…I know she’s tired, her speech isn’t making sense, she’s rubbing her eyes, and she’s yawning occasionally. If I go near here she stands up and hits me or bites me, she’s already headbutted a wall. If I pick her up and put her in bed/her room she comes out either by climbing or opening the gates.

This is a rant. I have nowhere else to go. I am done.

I love her more than anything, but I can’t cope.

OP posts:

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 20:19

She loves you

It would be useful if she showed this behaviour to the Social Worker or at Nursery occasionally though...

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 14/12/2018 20:20

Cerebra sleep service
www.cerebra.org.uk/help-and-information/sleep-service/

Join syndromes without a name for general advice

Soubriquet · 14/12/2018 20:25

I know it’s not conventional, but could you stick a tv in her room and put a film on in the evening for her to watch whilst she lays in bed.

With you sitting on the floor if you need to.

Maybe she will drift off to that?

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 20:27

No room for a TV where it wouldn't get knocked off but she has a tablet I could download some films on

OP posts:

Soubriquet · 14/12/2018 20:30

Tablet would work too.

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 20:30

What medication is she on? Could it be that causing her to act the way she is? If it’s steriods that she’s on that would explain a lot.

ChristmaspArti · 14/12/2018 20:31

Try joining bthe therapeutic parents group on Facebook and asking for advice there.

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 20:32

No steroids she has an orange inhaler which she takes twice in the morning and same again at night. And then in summer is given antihistamines for hayfever.

OP posts:

shalll · 14/12/2018 20:37

We have had challenging bedtimes (although no SN). Some things to try - not all at once though probably

Social stories - setting out bedtime expectations in a simple way.
Rewards - earn stickers, toy at weekend (expect you've tried this)
Audio books - either specific send to sleep ones or whatever keeps her happy and calm.
Rapid return - every time she comes out she is gently returned. I did this and counted 118 times out of bed on the first night but it did reduce drastically
Remove visual distractions / clutter from her room
Programmable cuddly toy which has a story or song prerecorded in your voice

I think for us the most important thing has been to remove any 'pressure' around going to sleep. We no longer say to DD that she must go to sleep, it's late, you'll be tired in the morning etc. In fact we keep saying there's no need to sleep, you just stay in your bed quietly and listen to your story. It doesn't matter if you fall asleep or not.

JosephineHass · 14/12/2018 20:38

What kind of physical activities she have during the day?

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 20:43

We do a stay and play group where she can run around to her hearts content, we swim and I try and do soft play once or twice a week (different places so mixed up a bit).

Nursery do 1 hour of outdoor play a day unless it’s raining heavily and then they also have a dance lesson once a week and football training.

OP posts:

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 20:59

Preventor inhalers have a low dose of steroids in them, it might be worth looking at the patient leaflet to look at possible side effects.

Also how long have the problems with her time being happening? Is it a new thing? Has she had a change in routine or circumstances at home?

I hate and dread bedtime, I’m a single parent and it’s hard.

I’ve not been with my DDs (age 8) DF (haven’t been since she was 18 months) she especially plays up for me and I’m just in the process of getting a SALT referral for her as I’ve always suspected that something isn’t quite right, but now school and her DF now acknowledge the same so I’ve been able to finally get a referral.

She is a nightmare at bedtime and has only recently started going into her own bed, as it was just easier to put her in bed with me but she’d end up getting nasty and hitting me and it would take forever for her to go to sleep, meaning she couldn’t get up in a morning and was more awful as she was tired. If I put her in her own room she’d scream the place down like I was murdering her and it was just awful.

So I’ve started dimming the lights before bed (bought some battery t light things) I put them in the bathroom and landing and she has one in her room in a Unicom candle holder like a night light. She either has a bath with Epsom salts or a quick shower in the candle lit bathroom, then into her room to get dressed then into bed. I have to go in a few (hundred times) but it is getting better and she’ll stay in her own bed until the early hours (which is ok as it’s progress). I’ve also seen that there’s a dr bach sleep remedy thing that can be used for children so was going to try that (it’s a spray in the mouth thing) but she’s a bit funny with things but was going to try and sell it to her as her special relaxing sleep spray. I also try and get her to calm down by asking her to think of her special place which sometimes works. I was also going to try lavender oil in the bath with the Epsom salts but she hates the smell hence the spray thing.

I’m also using the bloody elf thing as bribery to stay in bed which sometimes works, but I’ve also been advised to try balls or marbles in a jar so every time she stays in bed and goes to sleep without a fuss she gets one in the jar and after so many gets a small treat.

Perhaps something like that could help?

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 14/12/2018 21:01

This started when I split from her dad earlier this year and has got worse since she turned 3

OP posts:

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 21:02

Some good advice from shalll

School are doing social stories with my DD about bedtime and the expectations of bedtime. I’ve also de cluttered her bedroom and TRY to keep things calm and ignore naughty behaviour, but it’s hard.

Mandapanda85 · 14/12/2018 21:03

Oh I feel for you OP! Bedtimes are the worst for me too 😞

No SN experience but have you tried a sleep fairy/sleep psychologist? It was pricey for us but it actually worked a miracle and I'm so so glad we did it. It's been amazing..

Really hope you and your DD get some sleep

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 21:04

Ah, it could be anxiety as well. I think part of the problem with my DD is anxiety although I think she’s also got some learning difficulties, funnily enough she also had awful asthma when she was younger but seems to only be triggered when she’s got s cold now

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 21:05

@Mandapanda85 what did the sleep physiologist suggest?

Pernickity1 · 14/12/2018 21:10

This sounds incredibly tough You sound like a wonderful mum OP. Sorry I have no real advice but I would second the poster who said your DD behaves worse with you because you’re her safe space. I know that’s not helpful when you’re at the end of you tether and need some respite though.

I’m shocked someone has told you you’re not allowed to film your own child? I would do it anyway and show it to someone who can help - GP/Health visitor and tell them you’re not able to cope much longer without help? So sorry things are so tough right now x

Pernickity1 · 14/12/2018 21:15

OP if this started when you split from her dad and she is only allowed to see him 2 hours per week could this be fueling anxiety in her? Her little world must have spun on its axis of her dad lived with her previously? Perhaps she so frightened that you could disappear from her life too?

If so, maybe a child psychologist or play therapist could be an idea to explore?

Mandapanda85 · 14/12/2018 21:20

@chickhonhoneybabe she took us through a few things but I think it's quite individual for all kids she sees..

A couple of points were:
Sugar reduction (mine don't eat chocolate very much but love yoghurt and fruit - portion sizes were a bit big. Although I went against this one after a while as my boys are healthy but very fucking hungry.

Not to give petit filous but instead natural yoghurt

Time out for every little thing until they learn you mean what you say (we laxed this a bit because we didn't want a robot child, put in time out for the bigger things though so he learned bed time was a big thing)

We went from screaming and throwing himself into the baby gate on his bedroom door (leaving bruises ) to chilled out bedtime in 3 days. We still sit on the staircase till he goes to sleep but absolutely no more screaming at bedtime! I've been amazed at how much better I feel about the routine too!

chickhonhoneybabe · 14/12/2018 21:43

@Mandapanda85 thanks. That’s interesting about natural yoghurt, I usually go for the children’s fromage fraise and don’t give her her much sweet things, but will try a swap to natural.

I’ve also been givening consequences for naughty behaviour and have seen a bit of an improvement, guess I just need to persevere...

Original poster

DoneWithToday · 15/12/2018 20:15

Interesting...

I started bedtime routine at 4pm today, was much more relaxed and she was asleep by 5pm, usually when I give her an early night I go aim for her to be in bed by 6pm.

Have I possibly been pushing her beyond tired so she's too worked up?

OP posts:

Jackshouse · 15/12/2018 20:33

If she is not sleeping until 2 then she will be chronically over tired and it will be a vicious circle.

Glad she went down well tonight. Now go to bed so you catch up on sleep -incase she wakes up at 5-

chickhonhoneybabe · 15/12/2018 20:44

@DoneWithToday glad she’s gone down ok tonight, def try and get an early night tho in case she’s up at the crack of dawn.

klixie · 15/12/2018 21:20

I don't have advice apart from what has been shared here. Just wanted to say I am thinking of you both. SEN children can be quite challenging. I think the advice of looking into respite foster-care is a great idea, as is looking for a new and more supportive SW.

Over-tired children turn bed-time into chaos, and I think your decision to do an earlier bed-time routine was great. If you can stick to that routine, it may help as well.

Please ask your paed or general doctor about Melatonin. Really helps children who have difficulty going to sleep.

Best of luck, OP

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