to be annoyed that dh will not let me have the gorgeous Mercedes car that is parked outside our house?

[oliveoil]

He claims it is for a client!

Client my arse, where are his priorities fgs, I have given him 2 children had my stomach slashed and my nethers stitched and what thanks do I get?

Do you think divorce is too harsh or just separate for a while?

TIA

[Gobbledigook]

agree agree binkle

[Boco]

I think i'm doing a really good thing for my dds being a SAHM. My relationship is very equal, i don't care as much about money as i do about my children - I'd pay any amount i had to be able to bring them up myself rather than leave them in a day nursery 9 hours a day, so why bother? I'll work again when they're older and at school, i don't feel 'kept', I don't ask dh for money.

Xenia and Mozhe should really go and do some work - they're not being paid to lecture us - go on now!

[Gobbledigook]

Go Olive!

[Kewcumber]

binkle - you will be top of the list for "re-education"

[Quattrocento]

"and for the record, dh could afford to buy me a great big feck off car any day of the week, he is the Arthur Daley of the north"

We should start a support strand for OO. Who wants to be married to Arthur Daley? Who wants to be financially dependent on Arthur Daley? Worse still, who wants to rely on one of Arthur Daley's cars?

[binkleandflip]

Kewcumber, I posted then saw your post further down. Please dont think I was being flippant about your mum's situation

[Gobbledigook]

Although, while not doing bad on the shoes front I don't, yet, have a merc...

[binkleandflip]

A.P. Undies? You're talking SLK at least..

[muppetgirl]

Hard not to point out what xenia has stated re her own domestic circumstances involving a significant half as she personally attacks sahm's as being an underclass

I took my own mother's life as a guide of 'how not to do it'.

She gave up a good job to marry and have children at 19 and then stayed at home to look after myself and my 2 brothers. My parents marriage disintegrated but she couldn't leave as she coudn't possibly support herself or her children should she have wished to take us. She has ended up going from man to man (she also has confidence issues) as she has never been on her own and, therefore, is never really likely to be.
I chose to learn from this, to make sure I had an education, a career etc. I chose to be a teacher though my degree could lend itself to many thngs, as I could take time out but return to a reasonably well paid job should anything go wrong in my marriage.
I am with my husband because I chose to be not becasue I have to be.
Surely then I don't need 're-educating' as I have thought about myself as an individual as well as part of a marriage.

[Quattrocento]

Going back to the baby merc. I think in retrospect, it might just be worth a prance in AP underwear but only the basis that I could sell it and buy some pretty reasonable rocks.

[Kewcumber]

don't get me wrong - my mum doesn't regret staying at home with us - she is bitter about the money but it is complicated by many things (like my Dad being a complete plonker)

[oliveoil]

surely worth a bunk up

[Kewcumber]

I'd sleep with Arthur Daley for this

[Quattrocento]

OO - I can't load the pic but it says it's a 4x4. I already know this is not worth toenailclippings .

Getting serious for a minute, I do agree with Xenia that economic dependence on another person is not entirely a satisfactory state of affairs. It's mostly not good for the dependent, and it can be an awesome responsibility for the dependee. My DH has developed a permanent and debilitating health condition. We could afford for him to give up work and still pay the school fees. But he is worried about the responsibility it will put on me though, and the pressure of what might happen to us as a family if there is an economic downturn etc etc. Also he enjoys his job and wants to work. Maybe the idea that the Times was floating this weekend, of paying one parent to stay at home is not a ludicrous idea.

[binkleandflip]

I dont think we're such a responsibility tbh. Mu dh probably spend more on boytoys/gadgets annually than the cost of feeding/clothing his family and we're strictly next girls - might push the boat out to monsoon for an event. You wont find any logos or designer names on our stuff!

[ronshar]

Barging in, I would love the new Alfa Romeo slinky sexy number. As dh points out already have 2 dds with hopefully another 2 soon! I hate it when men are sensible.
I have worked full time and then part time since becoming a mother. I am now in full time employment being what I hope is a good mother to my 2 dds.
My eldest was a sad child before she is happy now. She tells me that she hated me being at work all the time. I worked 14hour days and nights!!

If I worked full time I would still have to cook for, clean, educate my children because THATS WHAT A MOTHER IS SUPPOSED TO DO
Sorry but women who try to demean others because they cant be bothered to look after their own children get right on my nerves.

[Anna8888]

quattrocento - but surely marriage is a state of mutual interdependence - economic, material, emotional etc?

I would have thought the burning issue for families with small children is that we have moved in the Western world in the space of a generation from a situation where families were composed in their majority of one breadwinner and one homemaker to a situation where two breadwinners are required to ensure an acceptable standard of living. If that is the case, there is a political and economic argument for providing economic support to families with small dependent children which can be used either to purchase childcare (where both parents work outside the home) OR to compensate for loss of earnings, where one parent stays at home.

We are all used to the idea of state pensions, free healthcare, free schools etc paid for from taxation to support society and the greater good. Why not "parental support"?

[mozhe]

I would not be happy for my taxes to be used to pay parents to stay home....it is a lifestyle choice.
Totally different for disability benebfits etc...they are not a choice and am happy to pay for that.

[Anna8888]

mozhe - are you OK with your taxes being used to pay for childcare?

[witchandchips]

Think the sort of "50s" family that Anna is describing is a bit of an historical anomoly and very much restricted to the urban middle classes in the 19th and 20th centurys. This is not to say that families are not best served by the division of labour that anna is talking about but that it this has not been the norm through history

[Anna8888]

witchandchips - many aspects of Western societies are still designed around the one breadwinner + one homemaker model - why are school hours the way they are? In many countries things have moved forward to take account of the two breadwinner model (ie shop opening hours in UK) but it is still not fully accounted for - we are in transition.

[witchandchips]

Anna my point is that we are always in transition. While our grandmothers and mothers may have been expected to stay at home and not work, our great grandmothers would have taken in washing/worked in the fields/made match boxes etc. etc.

[Anna8888]

mozhe - on the issue of children being a "lifestyle choice" - there was a fascinating article on demography in Europe in the Economist the week before last - read it and see whether you still think they are a lifestyle choice

[Anna8888]

witchandchips - all right.

But on the specific point of how we manage the economic and political transition from a one breadwinner + one homemaker model to a two breadwinner model, what do you propose we do to help families manage the fact that two breadwinners can't simultaneously be caring for the children?

At the moment, the UK government slates parents for not bringing children up properly and also expects both parents to work full time. Is this feasible?

[oliveoil]

oh for gods SAKE

start a new thread!

this is mine and you are making me combust with boredom