To think that getting into a top course/uni isn't even worth it?

[historyusernameyour]

AIBU to think that working your arse off to be able to study medicine/dentistry or going to Oxbridge/Imperial etc, is not really worth it anymore. When you consider how crazily high house prices are, that unless living in deepest rural Wales then even those top graduates won't be able to afford a high level of living.

If you think back to my generation (50s) or my parents, becoming a professional led to a very nice lifestyle. This same lifestyle is out of reach for all those bar the extremely high earners, think £200k plus income. But even so, for graduates to achieve a similar level of lifestyle to people of previous generations they'll have to work every hour under the sun.

Are there any careers that are really worth working that hard in?

It's not purely about the money.

YABU

I live in Warwickshire, anything over £70k affords a nice house, car and lifestyle. £100k + includes private school for 1/2 children

Working hard and studying still affords most a very nice lifestyle unless in the south east. There's more to life than London!

Quite right, you'd be much better off working shifts in a minimum wage job cause that's so easy withba great pension and job security too.

It is worth it a thousand times over.
I went to top 3 unis. Hand-wringingg shite.

Yeah I also agree you're right, you can't have nice lifestyle on anything less than 200 k plus a year and as such you shouldn't bother your arse.

Been on the sauce?

Don’t be daft. My daughter and boyfriend have bought a lovely little first home as young GP trainees in a very sought after southern city. They are 26 and will be looking to move up a step in about three years. They do nice holidays and nice clothes. Not filthy rich but certainly comfortable and they can earn an extra £600 for doing a shift at a local hospice. That helps with holidays.

My son is a military officer. Again comfortable rather than filthy rich but at 23 has his own home.

Hard work and education are the best routes to higher income still.

I think you're wrong that it's not worth it. Lots of the people who work hard to achieve academically aren't purely motivated by money and lifestyle so the achievement is it's own reward. Also life is easier with a top degree and there are still many jobs which will provide a very comfortable lifestyle and they're more easy to find with a top degree (in some subjects more than others). You also have more opportunity to find jobs abroad and just more choice in general.

That said you're not wrong that it's much more difficult to achieve a comfortable lifestyle than it was for baby boomers. My mum was a doctor, bought a house in London and sent two kids to private school while my dad just worked part time in a fairly low paid job (she wasn't even a consultant for most of that time). That just wouldn't be a possibility now. A degree is definitely not the guarantee of a stable, well paid career it once was.

yeah, so much better to leave school with no qualifications and be on minimum-wage, zero-hour contracts....

it stands to reason that if a professional well-paid job these days does not give you the equivalent life style you would have enjoyed with the same job decades ago, a minimum wage one will mean basically poverty, no? so still worth it, clearly!

now, if what had happened was that qualified jobs had not grown in remuneration and non-qualified ones had this might make some sense, but it is not the case is it?

@CherryPavlova

Surely they had help with a deposit in that case. I live in the south and I'd need a deposit of £40k at least to buy a decent house. I just don't see how you'd manage to save that independently by the age of 26 when you've only been out of uni for two years.

A decent wage may not buy you the sort of benefits your parents took for granted, but if you don’t earn a decent wage then you’re at the mercy of Universal Credit. Worth a lot of effort to avoid that.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033

bbc AFFORDABILTY CHECK assuming joint income of £75000 ( 1 x 50 K and 1 x 25K) and 3 bedrooms over 25 years and 10% deposit this would give you a mortgage for 400k and 40 K deposit (monthly repayment £2094 at standard variable rate you could almost certainly do better)

according to website 92% of UK is affordable wit

changing that to a 3 bed house with 250K mortgage (25K deposit) and £1300 a month 68% of UK is affordable

68% of the UK is not rural Wales in fact it is almost everywhere except greater London

There are lots of lovely 3 bed houses all over uk for less than 300K all these places need dentists doctors accountants head teachers solicitors etc in real life there are not that many jobs that can only be done in London

just 1 example really quite nice house in lovely market town with good schools 12 miles from Wolverhampton 20 miles from Birmingham not in the middle of nowhere 3 beds 239K

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58835976.html

What? No. There are nice properties here for a little over 100K and I'm nowhere near rural Wales. There are many, many areas like this throughout England where a nice lifestyle wouldn't require anything like 200k, that's utterly ridiculous. Your perception is completely skewed.

God no. Oxbridge is EPIC! Just stunning locations and incredible experiences and exposure. Networking that can last a lifetime.

I guess if you don’t understand opportunity, advantage and privilege you won’t understand Oxbrudge. But honestly, what a start. For the lucky few. Of course some people don’t do well there and don’t take advantage of the opportunity for whatever reason but for smart, focused, outgoing and motivated people it can set them up for life.

I never went😂

PermanentlyFrizzyHairBall We helped with furnishings but our daughter’s boyfriend had done some film work as a student and saved the deposit. They’d also saved as FY1 and FY2s. They didn’t need us for the deposit. We’ll bear the wedding costs though as there’s none left for that!
Our son used the Forces Help to Buy scheme and a bit from us towards fees etc plus furnishing help. He’d only got his income rather than two incomes sharing costs and we wanted to help him onto the ladder as soon as possible.
Yes, saving for a deposit is hard, you’re right but most of their friends are managing.

Well I do know a few doctors and Oxbridge graduates who would agree with OP! They’re not doing badly exactly, but I think it is a bit galling to be a a 30 yr old doctor living in a house share. The ones who have bought houses etc are married so have two incomes to save for a deposit/parental help. I figure it’ll pay off in the end for the though.

It may or may not be worth it, it depends. Daughter had already saved almost 10K in unspent earnings before going to an RG Uni, and seems to be just about maintaining that level of savings with current earnings, rest of this year and 2 more years to go one of which will be paid placement so is aiming to save a few extra £K there, so realistically she's not going to have a problem in saving a 10-15% deposit on her own within the first couple of years of leaving Uni to afford to buy in this area of the SE provided she gets a job. She doesn't drink or smoke, or spend £££ on clothes/holidays/eating out/going out either, and the work she'll be doing it'll be easy to work plenty of overtime on a £25K basic salary or carry on with the current (quite lucrative) freelance work she does alongside her job.
Had she not gone to Uni I'd suggest her work ethic and spend ethic would not make much difference other than she'd have had 4 years of full time work + her freelance work and may well have saved more deposit, however I'm not sure she'd be paid as much salary.

@CherryPavlova That's great! I do think it's probably not achievable on average though and certainly much more difficult to do than it was for our parents generation.

Where I live a small terrace would be around 350k (there are cheaper places in neighbouring towns but you'd have to be much less fussy about the area and schools) so you'd need a fairly hefty deposit and good salary. Even most doctors would struggle to get there before they hit 30. In the past a doctors salary was enough to support a stay at home parent, a house and a nice lifestyle (private schools etc.) independently. Teachers actually struggle to even get on the property ladder.

PermanentlyFrizzyHairBall. I don’t disagree at all. Doctors, teachers, solicitors used to be considered the pillars of local communities and were comparatively well rewarded. To get to that point definitely is harder now and there is less intrinsic reward as well.

Not just about the money though. I am in professional job doesn't pay mega bucks about 4.5 times min wage per hour.

Other benefits are:

• always plenty of work/ security
• flexibility
• self employment possible
• progression, challenging work which can be enjoyable

Medicine is a long game money wise. Huge debts after uni. Not rich now but enough income to give us and the kids a nice existence and worrying about money is I think (I hope!) behind us. And every day is an absolute privilege so yes on balance well worth it. Have been at it nearly 20 years now.

I went to Cambridge and it's the best decision I've ever made.

There's more to life than how much you earn.

Also people don't go into medicine for the money...

Well having a first class degree from a Russell group in a serious subject is a prerequisite for most well paid jobs these days. So for instance lawyers working in top firms/chambers get a decent salary, people working in big companies in IT can get aid very well. People in finance like brokers, bankers, hedge fund managers etc get paid well. Big four accountancy or top go sultan you firms also pay well. People who are in top tier business running major companies etc get paid well. A good degree no longer garuntees a good job-which is fair enough really, why should someone be rewarded for the rest of their lives for three to five years of moderately hard work?- but it does give you the opportunity to build a good career which you can’t without a degree.

It’s also not worth using doctors as a measuring stick. They get paid almost nothing because of the NHS. Medicine is a fools errand in the UK, all the sensible ones leave for America.

This kind of education is also a dating advantage.