Aibu to say I wish low paid workers all over uk would rediscover the power of union membership?

[Graphista]

Several threads and obvious current affairs issues have prompted this thread.

1 zero hours contracts

2 Employers demanding sick noted from Drs when it's not legally required and not necessary for the employee to visit the dr

3 Employers making workers register as self employed to dodge regulations and taxes

4 employers and consumers pushing for people to be working 24/7/365 in industries where this is not necessary

5 workers no longer paid extra for overtime, Sunday's, bank holidays

6 workers facing massively restrictive conditions eg leave bans for months at a time

7 discriminatory practices on the rise

8 bullying & punitive practices: eg zero hours workers if they turn down a shift not being offered shifts

workers who've displeased a boss being given the shitty tasks as punishment.

Workers being denied leave if asking soon after displeasing a boss

Workers being denied time off to go to medical and maternity appointments

Leave being cancelled last minute for no good reason

9 basically workers being treated as machines rather than people!

These are all the kind of issues that unions should and can deal with.

People seemed to have become resistant to union membership and unions have had a bad press for the last ooooh 40+ years can't imagine why the whole time we've basically had right wing governments who don't like unions

And to have forgotten that actually we've got a lot to be grateful to unions for. They're the organisations that fought to end child labour, to get equal opportunities enshrined in law, for employees health & safety (literally saving lives), maternity rights, parental rights, sexual harassment at work made illegal, shorter working days & test periods legislated for...

Yes sometimes strike action was taken but that's generally a last resort.

Employers are LOVING that you're not in a union, because especially with legal aid removed for employment disputes as a lone voice if your employer decides to treat you like shit there's very little you can do.

This govt are LOVING that you're not in a union because it makes it a damn sight harder to hold them to account for not protecting you and your rights too.

The current apathy in this country is shocking and it's not helping anyone. And if we accept the current poor treatment it's only going to get worse and then employment conditions for our children and grandchildren will be even worse. Do you really want that?

Sad to say that most Unions are rubbish and not worth the membership fee, a lot aren't even up to date with employment law whereas ACAS is, I've seen many employees be let down by Union reps that didn't have a clue what they were doing.

However unions won’t work as most low paid jobs I’ve ever had don’t recognise unions

It doesn't really matter whether they're recognised or not. You still have a legal right to representation and you can get the union in to fight your corner.

Furthermore, being in a union gives you free access to legal help and this is not just for work stuff, but for personal stuff too. Family law, personal injury claims (getting 100% of compensation with not 25% to the solicitors), families are usually allowed to access this too.

That is worth the fee alone.

To the pp who said their union was shit, did you actually put a complaint in to tell them about the shoddy service you received, or did you just cancel your subscription without giving them a chance to investigate what happened and reprimand the rep?

Acas can give you telephone advice, but should your case reach an employment tribunal, you would not get any representation and you would have to cover all your own legal fees.

I totally agree with you OP. People only usually want to join a union when it's too late for them to be able to help.

A friend had a issue with work and went to union over it...union kinda advised her to suck it up! Something that was completely wrong. Some union officials are friends with management and work together behind the employees backs She had to go to a solicitor for something her union should have done. After paying dues for years.

and on another thread, you have people skiving home at 2m instead of 5pm when their meeting finish early, parent pretending working from home is a way to avoid childcare and tens of advice to take a sickie when your child is sick.

Some union officials are friends with management and work together behind the employees backs

I can imagine that workplace reps are like this, but ime, unions officials are rather anti-establishment.

I know of lots of success stories, but people don't tend to write about them unfortunately.

Agree 100%. My union is fantastic. Sometimes frustrating. Always supportive and we have gained really important successes and it avoided awful changes by being strong together. I do get frustrated by those not in the union who frequently seek union advice and/or join at last minute just to get representation at hearings etc. Lawyers ‘union’ so it tends to be good ! I was shocked recentlynto see low levels of membership in the UK. I guess I shouldn’t be - lived through Thatcher.

I work in low paid, shit hours retail and am a member of a union.
I am also a member of a union but this are still crap.
Our managers openly say if we don’t like something then we are free to leave as they know we are easily replaceable.
So shifts changed at their convenience, unsocial hours enhancements reduced, under inflation annual pay rise, Sunday double time gone, around 50% per store less staff than there was 15 years ago but their sure ain’t 50% less work to do.

Completely agree. I've been in a union since I was in my teens (less than ten years) and was treated awfully by a well known employer.

Even when the union wasn't recognised, I've found that dropping it into conversation that I'm in a union has made employers who are twatting about suddenly become rather more decent and treat me better.

I work in Industrial Relations and Employee Relations and do a lot of mediation and adjudication between employers and employees, so have a lot of interaction with union reps. I would consider myself completely independent.

Based on my experience of unions, I’d personally never join one.

In the past week alone I’ve had:

An employee with a very strong case against their employer given 100% wrong advice by their union rep which completely jeopardised their case.
The union rep chose to spend their time using the employee’s issue to criticize the company’s management of another issue. The employee was thrown under the bus in order for the rep to get airtime on what they perceived as a bigger issue that was in no way connected to the employee.

Two employees raised an issue in their team (something very clear-cut and very well tested in legislation and provide for in the employees’ contracts; the employer was compliant and entitled to handle it the way they did- no ambiguity at all) and wanted to raise it as a grievance. The company heard the grievance and it wasn’t upheld.
What the employees didn’t know was that their union rep had contacted the company, told them he knew the employees didn’t have a leg to stand on, but it’d look better for him if it was allowed to progress to grievance stage so that the company were ultimately the ones saying “no, you can’t do this” and the union could say they pushed it as much on their side as they could.
It was utterly blatant by the union. Ridiculous carry-on.
In fairness to the employer, they had a very strong grievance management procedure so would have allowed the issue to go to grievance hearing and had advised the employees that that path was open to them from the outset.

My workplace made me so ill I could have died but my union are doing fuck all about it. I've raised a grievance and can't even get a meeting arranged with support. They suggested I go in with a colleague instead.

You pay into them for years for the knowledge that someone has your back if shit hits the fan but in reality they can't do shit. It's false hope and it's dangerous.

@Graphista i saw this thread last night after the OP mentioned it on a thread on this board.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues/3426872-Crying-and-shaking-re-leaving-work-tonight-who-is-to-blame-Car-left-behind

Can I please urge everyone who feels that their union have let them down, to follow the complaints procedure and complain about their rep.

If the organisation don't know that their reps are shit, how can they do anything about it?

100% agree.

I used to be a rep when I worked in a bank and comparing the outcomes for staff when they were union members v when they were representing themselves was like night and day.

DH is head office staff for a union, and the amount of time he spends just trying to ensure that his members retain the terms and conditions they currently have while the employer is trying to implement cost cutting (ie profit increasing) measures is staggering.

I’m always a bit when anyone says that their union is crap- maybe their local reps aren’t up to scratch, but a union is only as strong as it’s members and if you think your representation is shite, why don’t you give it a go yourself?

if you think your representation is shite, why don’t you give it a go yourself?

Amen.

The free training and opportunities you are offered are brilliant.

Unions have a massive image problem, irrespective of your political beliefs.

Yes you can pull the whole "unions got us the 40 hour week and stopped kids going down the mines" thing if you want, but that's before most of our lifetimes. Far more recent was the miners' strike and the violence/intimidation of "scabs", the Winter of Discontent when there were power cuts, rubbish piling up in the streets and bodies going unburied. I remember that - definitely the power cuts. And if you're too young to remember it, your parents probably do.

There are still a lot of union leaders who are still around from that time - Len McCluskey springs to mind. Mates with Jeremy, slightly to the left of Stalin. And general secretary of the UK's largest union.

In order to make unions relevant to workers in the 21st century they need to stop harping on about class warfare and the bourgeoisie exploiting the proletariat workers. They need a modern outlook which is not funding and tied to the Labour party. They need young, vibrant leaders who have actually worked in private business rather than being career shop stewards. The current crop of union leaders ARE dinosaurs.

Agreed. A lot of people aren’t really understanding how a union works. It’s not a service you pay for, it’s a collective that you join in with. Unions with active members are the most effective.

i remember power cuts too. The ones at winter/ Christmas 2013.

Because UKPN had too many staff off at Christmas so when the storms hit people were without power for days and days including Christmas. UKPN very likely thought they would save on wages by so many being off that Christmas.

Good post, MacarenaFerreiro.

I’ve only worked or been involved with Irish unions, which don’t have the same associations with the hard left.

The organisations can be unbelievably political though- I’ve seen first hand how poorly they can treat their internal staff, and how much your career progression depends on kissing the right person’s arse rather than how good you are at the job.

Then there’s the entitlement from executive committee members that any catering, accommodation and travel will be 1st class and paid for at members’ expense.

@MacarenaFerreiro
100%

The young of today are a forgotten breed.
The old school unions need to go ASAP.
Someone needs to have some concept of relevance

Unions : The people who brought you the Weekends

And paid holidays.

The young of today are a forgotten breed.
The old school unions need to go ASAP.
Someone needs to have some concept of relevance

I am very proud union and I couldn't agree more with this

I don't believe 'old school' unions should go, but they do need to move with the times

I've long belonged to a union, and recommend people join them. However even I have been recently frustrated. I work in healthcare and it is pretty frustrating to have major changes in your contract mis sold to you by your own unions, who clearly did not understand what they were encouraging us to vote on. Although the total apathy of much of the workforce to being in a union and also to even attempting to vote on/understand the new contract is equally frustrating.

I completely agree! Time for a revolution.

My employer refuses to recognise unions.