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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think my company can’t just let me go because they want my part time role to be full time

49 replies

IAmADancer · 11/12/2018 17:19

Joined the company 9 months ago. I did 3 months temp to perm and then went perm in august. Had a review and end of probation in November. All was fine and signed off. Good positive review

Last week my job share handed in her notice. I do Mon/Tues and she does Weds-Fri. Today my boss takes me in a meeting room and tells me that my job is basically ended as they have decided they want it to be full time. I’m not being sacked as I haven’t done anything wrong, they just want full time instead of part time.

I emailed HR to clarify exactly what was happening as I’m assuming I’m being made redundant but from a legal perspective I didn’t think they could do this. HR had no knowledge of me being told my job was ending.

I’m so confused as to where I stand legally. Do I have grounds for constructive dismissal? I’m just really unsure as to what my rights are

OP posts:

MadameButterface · 11/12/2018 17:33

honestly op I would contact ACAS for proper advice on this.

PotteringAlong · 11/12/2018 17:34

They haven’t offered me the full time role as they know I can’t do it. I have pre school kids and only have childcare three days a week

But full time childcare exists if you want it. They don’t know you can’t do it. Would you want to work full time if the choice is full time or no time?

MrsGarethSouthgate · 11/12/2018 17:34

Also in a previous role I once made a part time worker redundant in order to replace them with a full time one.

It can be done that way if required, it's just in your case due to length of service it's not necessary.

Lazypuppy · 11/12/2018 17:40

Wpuld you not want the full time job? You could negotiate maybe 4 days instead of 5 and they may be happy with that?

nosleepforme · 11/12/2018 17:43

Legally they could say that this position within the company has closed and another full time position is available

Original poster

IAmADancer · 11/12/2018 17:46

If I went full time I would just end up paying all of the money I earned to the nursery. It’s a 1.5 hour commute each way and I only just manage it as it is with dropping and picking the kids up. It’s extremly tight time wise and if there is go wrong I’m screwed. I could manage the current days and it worked financially

OP posts:

Hohocabbage · 11/12/2018 17:46

Pretty sure your boss should have spoken to HR first! That’s odd in itself. Would serve them right if the new full time person puts in for flexible working after a year.
It could come under sex discrimination but you need proper advice. And to be honest it’s probably not worth it if another job is at all possible.

Original poster

IAmADancer · 11/12/2018 17:46

@nosleepforme

They have told me that isn’t the case though

OP posts:

TheBigBangRocks · 11/12/2018 18:21

It's not their fault you don't want full time as don't consider the childcare costs to be worth it. With less than two years service they don't have to give a reason to end the post.

LIZS · 11/12/2018 18:30

Sounds like they are looking to reduce headcount and a jobshare no longer works for them. Effectively the pt roles are being made redundant although you should be invited to apply for the ft role or any comparable vacancies. Not sure how it is discriminatory, men can choose to work pt too! With less than 2 years' service they can just "let you go", with notice etc.

bumblingbovine49 · 11/12/2018 18:40

Ask if they are willing for you this do the job in 4 days days a week. Find childcare for the ,4th day and try it

MojoMoon · 11/12/2018 18:41

You aren't being fired
I think legally they call it a separation of employment? So no fault is attached to it, it is just an ending of contract. They don't even need to give a reason really

But yeah, basically no rights in the first two years of working somewhere.

They should pay you your notice though - so a month normally?

Bestseller · 11/12/2018 18:42

I had the exact same issue. I took advice from a charity called Working Families. There was never any case as such because once my employer realised I was taking advice they decided they didn't need to lose.me after all.

I don't think the 2 years applies if it's sex discrimination, which treating pt workers unfairly can be considered to be, although if push comes to shove they probably can argue business reasons and make you redundant (although no benefit as you ve been there such a short time)

PrincessDando · 11/12/2018 18:47

I work in HR and this would be seen as a redundancy situation if it was difficult to replace the job sharer, or if there were sound business reasons why the job share was no longer working.

You may have recourse to challenge the dismissal if neither of the two above factors apply, but with less than 2 years service you don't have any (non discrimination) rights I'm afraid.

donquixotedelamancha · 11/12/2018 18:56

honestly op I would contact ACAS for proper advice on this.

This. Things have changed since I worked in personnel, so I'm going to refrain from advising- but I think the opinions you are getting here are wrong (at least in theory, in practice it may be a hard road if you do get sacked).

You need to get professional advice. Since you have not received notice in writing, nothing has happened yet. You stand a much better chance of convincing the company to behave correctly if you are well prepared.

TedAndLola · 11/12/2018 18:59

Unfortunately, job shares often benefit the employees more than the employers. It'll be more secure if you can find a role that is part time and doesn't rely on anybody else to 'top it up' to full time.

LOADS of people start job hunting in the new year which means lots of posts open up.

SilverySurfer · 11/12/2018 20:16

As you have been there less than two years, they are able to cease your contract - you are not being sacked.

Would serve them right if the new full time person puts in for flexible working after a year.

Not sure what you mean by this - if an employer can show a business need they are fully entitled to decline flexible working for any/all of their staff.

IHATEPeppaPig · 11/12/2018 20:27

OP this could be discrimination - they cannot just decide to make the role full time out of nowhere without consultation. This would be indirect sex discrimination- call ACAS and tell HR you are seeking advice.

My bet is once HR is aware of the full circumstances this will be overturned as it is not legal in any respect.

IHATEPeppaPig · 11/12/2018 20:29

And OP the advice you have received on here is totally incorrect. It isn't right and as I said it may well be indirect sex discrimination.

Wheresmrlion · 11/12/2018 20:41

Definitely worth calling ACAS. Is there anything in your contract about this?

Slightly different but I went to a part time job share after mat leave and it was very carefully written into my new contract that if one of us left and they failed to get a replacement for those hours then the remaining person would be expected to take on the extra hours or leave so they could advertise the job as full time.

Have you spoken to your boss to see if they could advertise the missing part time hours first? Have they given a concrete reason for wanting/needing the role to be full time?

TheTroublesomestTribble · 11/12/2018 21:42

And OP the advice you have received on here is totally incorrect. It isn't right and as I said it may well be indirect sex discrimination

This is almost impossible prove, as 'Business Reasons' is a complete defence to a challenge of indirect discrimination in the case of flexible working - and there is always a business reason (or one can be trumped up)

The problem is, employee rights are pretty much unenforceable, so might as well not be there. Its pretty naive to believe that just because a right theoretically exists, it will be enforceable.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 11/12/2018 21:45

Could you try full time ? Job shares are so hard to find

It sucks being the main carer

MadameButterface · 11/12/2018 21:48

IHATE i said the same as you at 17.29 but i think i typed it in invisible font

Op needs to get proper advice

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 11/12/2018 21:48

I think best to focus energy on solutions rather than the unfairness of it .

Companies can and do get rid of people when it does t suit them . Harsh but true

Think about the role and how you might make it work better ? Have you been doing a good job ? Negotiate some home working ??

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