To want to train to become a bookkeeper?

[caddywally]

Does anyone who works in a similar industry know whether bookkeeping qualifications are worthwhile, or if is it's a role that's likely to become automated in the near future?

I cant see it becoming automated! I'm a bookkeeper. I don't actually have any qualifications as i just trained on the job with help from a chartered accountant but ive done it for 13 years now. It pays pretty well and the flexibility has been amazing for me. Everyone I've worked for has been happy for me to keep my own hours.

I'm very curious why you can't see it being automated?

I've been involved with projects to automate cash application, payment and expense coding etc. All we need is a shift to a good quality electronic standard for invoicing, receipts and remittance and I could automate 99%.

My partner does a bit of bookkeeping and between Xero, ReceiptBank I mainly see the manual bit only existing due to poor process and sloppiness earlier in the process.

I think the bookkeeping is non trivial as it's business account, plus allocation of expense and income for ~40 rental properties and correct allocation of dividends to investors but even that bit is trivial to automate.

Titsywoo Thanks for the response! I did a small amount of very basic bookkeeping stuff as part of my degree years ago (I've probably forgotten it all by now!), but I don't know anything about how it works in practice so wasn't sure how easy it would be for a computer to do it. It sounds like you enjoy it. Something to think about!

If you get a decent qualification (probably even if you don't) you will have all the work you ever need! The only thing that holds me back is confidence and that is growing as I work. The OU do a good beginning qualification that can get you accredited and from then on (in my limited experience although I live rurally which might make a difference) people will run towards you begging for your services. If you have good basic maths and organisational skills you will be set up for a decent career. And it is confusing enough and humanly regulation bound that even if you use software to help you work it doesn't seem something that will be automated any time soon. People are scared of maths and the work that comes with their basic bookkeeping so if you are confident and knowledgeable it's a great job.

LyTinWheedle Have you trained on the job or is it something you've studied yourself? Do you think it's necessary to train on the job for exposure to more different types of accounts?

With all the software available now, bookkeeping is becoming more and more obsolete however small businesses still need someone to check the figures and help with final account submissions, if not doing bank recs and regular checks on what the owners are entering.

Lytin can you say what the OU course was?

stinkypoo Interesting. Do you think it would still be worth getting AAT qualified, or would the amount of human work not be enough to make it a good career path?

@stinkypoo

My issue with this is that the only businesses who are going to be spending much on bookkeeping in the next 10 years will be the marginal firms who are too non-compliant to be automated or just on the last legs.

You're always going to have the real accountancy business but with the move to electronic filing for HMRC, the phasing out of cash transactions etc. and the improvements in automation (Xero is the thin end of the wedge) I can't see bookkeeping existing as a profitable line of work.

Even the sort of work bookkeepers show me as having value isn't really special. Coding etc. is something which can be automated especially with the improvements that machine learning gives us.

For me the key point to get across to people is that bookkeeping is not a value adding service. It's a cost to your business that you want to minimise. As a result it's not a good investment in terms of spending money/time on qualifications.

I'm very curious why you can't see it being automated

GIGO - Because most small business owners' understanding of accounting is, quite frankly, terrifying.

Fraud. Because some people can't be trusted.

And finally - because 90% of the time when I have to ring our software support people because the accounts package is throwing a sickie, I find that they don't know what I'm talking about accounting-wise.

I completely agree @ipretendnotto

However I know a number of micro businesses who do need help - they are great at doing what they are good at but the paperwork tends not to be one of them, also needing general advice. They can put their sales invoices through, and some purchases for VAT but it’s not he same as full record keeping.

MTD actually makes small business need support even more than before, at least for now.

AAT is a great qualification imo @caddywally - it’s much more than just bookkeeping.

Also payroll for small employers has been quite popular since RTI came in.

@happyclutterchucker

See this is the difficult bit as I'd class firms like that as being in the marginal end where there's no real money to be made. They're not willing to spend any time or money on getting their act together so why would they pay for a serious amount of bookkeeping.

As for the fraud side. This is where I think traditional bookkeepers and accountants are completely deluded. Machine learning and software is so much better at detecting fraud it's like entering a 3 week old baby in the London Marathon vs Mo Farrah doped to the eyeballs.

Your point about software support. That's the last bit of value add around it and that will slowly close down.

You can study AAT levels 2 & 3 and become a qualified bookkeeper (with the letters AATQB after your name) so you haven’t got to complete the full aat qualification. It was enough to get me a well paid job in practice with minimal experience. GL

Software isn't as good at detecting fraud as you think, not yet awhiles. Otherwise HMRC wouldn't bother sending inspectors out

I've been in this trade approaching 40 years now, and I've seen the development of the automated side of accounts over the years. Hell, I've even configured a few of them at the implementation stage.

The overwhelming majority of small business owners simply don't have the time, inclination or knowledge to set the computer up properly. and get the transactions in the system right. They then give their accountant a carrier bag full of receipts and a memory stick a set of accounts that make no sense whatever and the accountant has to start all over again from incomplete records.

You also then have organisations with numerous subsidiaries, holding companies, parent companies, directors who are also directors of purportedly 'unrelated' companies, you name it. A software program isn't going to be able to think laterally enough. It's like putting a jigsaw together when you only have half the pieces and no box.

It also takes someone seriously knowledgeable about accountancy to program the computer in the first place, and there aren't enough of them around.

Anyway... we have digressed.

Yes, OP - courses at your local college would be the best bet, there are a lot of online ones, but a fair few of those might not be quite what they say they are, qualification-wise, if you get my drift.

Thanks everyone! Sounds like it might be a qualification worth doing even if human bookkeepers become obsolete in the future.

Do AAT as that covers other aspects of accounts, not just bookkeeping. You can do it very cheaply, no need for a college or even an online course costing hundreds per module.

Buy the books, register as a student member and book your exams when you are ready. If you have an appitude for the subject you can skim the level two bookkeeping study books and start at level three. Carry on to level four or opt for a chartered qualification if you really enjoy it and fancy going further in the career.

Automation is definitely an issue and that’s why going higher is safer, you become the person implementing and overseeing the new applications. Or using the outputs to create analysis or advise for decision making. You have to be very comfortable with IT and love spreadsheets. I fancied practice accounting but found I preferred management accounting.

If you have an aptitude for the subject you can skim the level two yes, although you would miss the introduction of a number of topics, a knowledge and understanding of which is presumed at level three. If you are actually working in an accounts environment, you would be getting practical experience which helps with a lot of the concepts.

Happy - Skim as in read but not study for the exams. And only if you have a natural aptitude.

Level two is exceptionally basic. And taught in a very long winded manner. I zipped through the books and refused to take the exams, waste of money. The chartered exams assume no prior knowledge but are the equivalent of AAT level four from the beginning.

I presume you’re a tutor as I heard this when trying to get on a level three course so did it myself at home. I’m doing chartered exams at home too. 93% on financial accounting, I’ve done very well from only skimming level two.

I did AAT the way ShastaBeast says, ie buy the textbooks and do it all by self-study. I’m now a bookkeeper and it’s very flexible and pretty well-paid, but I must admit a lot of the work is pretty dull

Sammysquiz Did you find that doing it all by self-study rather than being sponsored by an employer meant that you encountered lots of stuff you'd never seen before when you entered the 'real world' of bookkeeping, or does AAT prepare you pretty well for most things?

AAT prepared me for a lot of things, but there was still a lot to learn when I was let loose on real clients! The hardest thing about self-study is motivation - sitting down with a big brick of a text-book called Business Tax and ploughing your way through it is quite hard-going. I think AAT has changed the syllabus since I qualified a few years ago, but I remember levels 2&3 being fairly easy but level 4 being a grind.

AAT etc teach the theory but the reality is computer based accounts hide most of the double entry so you don’t need to think where things will go, debit or credit. It becomes more about learning how the system works. A sage course could help or a free trial with an online based system once you nail the theory. It definitely helps to be working in the field but I got through level three as a sahm and held off more exams until I was settled in an accounts role. I suspect there’s people doing professional level exams without a job and I study things I won’t ever put in to practice.