Something really strange just happened

[InSwamTiddler]

I’ve NC for this as I’m not sure what to make of it and I’m really confused.
Back story - I was raised Catholic, but I’m atheist now. I work in a science based field and for as long as I can remember I have believed in the factual, empirically provable reality of things. I don’t believe in God or the afterlife, or ghosts / paranormal stuff.

Nearly 9 years ago my dad died. He died very suddenly and unexpectedly at a young age in my childhood family home.

Due to some circumstantial things, I’m currently living back in my family home.
My mum has mentioned a few times over the years that she’s felt my dad’s presence here and I’ve always been openly kind to her about it, but thinking “nope. Your imagination is going crazy because you’re grieving”. She’s mentioned she’s felt pressure on the bed as if someone has sat down on it next to her for example.

Anyway, this morning DP has left for work and I was still in bed. I was listening to him brushing his teeth, then popping the kettle on so I was definitely awake, but a little drowsy.

I felt him get back into bed with me and thought “what’s he doing?”... it’s not unusual for him to pop back into the bedroom and give me a hug or kiss before leaving the house.

I felt the heaviness of him pressed against my back and his arms wrapped around me. There was a heat between my shoulder blades I have never felt before but I wasn’t scared but I knew it wasn’t DP then. I heard the front door open so DP was leaving the house. Then my whole back went tingly a bit like pins and needles but not in an unpleasant way.

When it was happened I felt calm and warm but I’m freaking out now and can’t stop crying. Sounds silly but I feel like it may have been my dad.

I was 100% awake, not dreaming. I leant over and flicked the lamp on straight after.

Does anyone believe in this stuff? I never have but now I’m questioning everything.

No. And neither has anyone else. Because you can only pick up subliminal messages from something you've seen or heard or smelled-not from something completely detached from you. All the stories of people not getting on flights that crashed and so on are either fabrications or post hoc rationalization.

And such a statement brings rational discussion on that subject to an abrupt halt! What a shame. We can agree to disagree.

I hope you took on board the fact that some people are better at picking up on subliminal messages than others, and that we can't prove where subliminal messages are coming from to anyone else, so a lack of evidence does not necessarily mean "not possible".

Your later post m3lon I agree with you in terms of settling the debate.

Also, most people's minds are quite cluttered day to day, and until the subject of the premonition has actually happened, many people might find it hard to distinguish between anxiety or daydream about the event and it being a premonition - it is only after the event they realise it was a premonition. So it is unlikely you'd get many genuine people coming forward for the study.

The thing is, it’s not a rational discussion if one side is insisting that they can make claims with no supporting evidence- it’s merely an exchange of anecdotes.

It is reasonable to say that, for example, you were instinctively wary of a person you did not know, because there were lots of tiny clues in appearance, manner and speech that added up to something worrying and they turned out to be a murderer. Although the chances are that they won’t.

It is nor reasonable to say that you instinctively decided not to get on a plane that later crashed, because there were no subliminal messages to pick up because planes don’t send them.

big but you are doing the same thing I am saying will wreck the analysis.

If a person worries about something, then it happens, you want to reclassify their experience as a premonition. If someone has a premonition and it doesn't come to pass, you want to reclassify it as a worry or daydream.

You are redefining 'premonition' to be any prediction of the future that comes true, and defining any prediction about the future that doesn't come true to be 'not a premonition'.

This cannot be a useful definition as it relies on post hoc information to determine what has already happened.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6479851/Mumsnet-Woman-believes-felt-fathers-presence.html

big also - I don't think subliminal means what you think it does!

subliminal - (of a stimulus or mental process) below the threshold of sensation or consciousness; perceived by or affecting someone's mind without their being aware of it.

This doesn't in any sense mean that the stimulus is outside the scientifically established laws of nature.

We all respond to subliminal information because a huge amount of mental processing happens without our conscious notice. This does not mean at all that the source of the information is mysterious. IT isn't.

The thing is, it’s not a rational discussion if one side is insisting that they can make claims with no supporting evidence- it’s merely an exchange of anecdotes.

The point I was making was that some people pick up on more than others. Because you personally have not experienced it you decide "not possible"and that stops rational discussion. If you had been open to exploring further, the fact that you are not able to prove what you think either, for example (see your statement which I hightlighted - can you prove that?) and also that if you had asked me questions I may have been able to provide more objective info which you may not have previously considered, and vice versa, then we may both have taken the discussion further. But instead you said "no" and that was that!

Anyway - I have things to do, so have to stop posting. Have a good day!

m3lon - I think subliminal was the right word, the point I was making earlier in the thread was that these various "gifts" of premonition, esp, communication without talking or whatever, may operate "below the threshold of sensation or consciousness; perceived by or affecting someone's mind without their being aware of it" - that seems very possibly/likely - to people who experience it is not mysterious in the least - it is the norm for them, and natural, and not exciting in the least - it just isn't widely understood or "proved" yet.

but you are doing the same thing I am saying will wreck the analysis I absolutely agree with you. But possibly the problem is the tests, not the credibility of the subject matter. A different test (not yet thought about) might at some point produce more tangible results.

Anyway - unfortunately I have to disappear off and do other things. Thanks for the thought provoking posts though.

Ah yes- if I had been more open minded and asked the right questions, you could have given me evidence but now you're not because I am too unreceptive. That happens a lot! It's what the many people who fail to produce their gifts under controlled conditions say - the "negativity" stopped it working. Rather than the effective blindfold.......
I can provide evidence for the reading of subliminal messages. Honest stage psychics and magicians like Derrwn Beown have provided full explanations of how they do "cold reading". Anyone can learn to do it- some people are naturally very good at it.

Why? Why would it only have happened in her house? It makes absolutely no sense. The only explanation is that it was my grandmother.

There are plenty of possible explanations. Why would your grandmother only haunt that one place? I know in Being Human the ghost is stuck in the house but if there is a spirit world, why can't spirits move around? I mean if you can reach out beyond death, why only in one place? Or is it as PP have suggested that our minds most turn to someone in the place we most associate with them.

By the way everyone this thread is in the daily mail

if I had been more open minded

it is absolutely fine for you not to be open minded but it does mean that most people who are open minded won't want to spend a great deal of time discussing it with you. It is absolutely your choice what you believe, and not a problem, and you may have very good reasons for sticking to your belief system and not being very open minded about other belief systems. My only request is that you respect my and other people's belief systems, even if they are different from yours.

Best wishes.

Good news:
That wasnt your father so take a deep breath and relax.

Get a cheap spray bottle and fill it with water and add frankinscence essential oil and lavender essential oil , afew drops, to it. Spray the corners of your bedroom every night before you sleep.
You can do this in all the rooms of the house except the bathroom, daily for at least 40 days, if you want to clear the house of unwelcome guests.
It should stop. If it doesnt want to go...
And things get abit poltergeisty...look up
Abu nadeer in london and have a chat with him. He will help out.

I hope this helps

Seriously?!!
Gotta go find it now!
Thanks😉

Me and my DP are both heavily sceptical, but of late we’ve both come to realise that our house is raddled with entities of whatever description. We’ve both seen & experienced things and so has our 4 yo. 5 other separate people have seen the same thing over a period of the last 30 years. We’ve come to the conclusion that there’s more between heaven and Earth (I say that lightly as I’m also atheist) that we don’t know about. I keep an open mind about it all.

I am a mathematician and have written curriculum for maths and science and also do not believe in god etc however similar situations have happened to me and I cannot explain them. For example my nan told me when she died - I knew five minutes before my mum phoned that she had gone and then went to her funeral but couldn’t go to her internment as it was on a different day and couldnt get another day off work. Months later I went to visit the cemetery - a huge one in Whitton, Middlesex with thousands of graves - I had never been there before. I knew she was interned into my grandfathers grave - he had died when I was very young and had never visited him there - and was wandering around for a couple of hours trying to find the grave. Eventually I was close to giving up and was upset and said “where are you nan” and I can only say that a grave in the distance started to glow - it was under a redwood tree, it wasn’t a sunny day, and it looked like it was covered in shiny plastic - it was the grave. When I got closer it was covered in lichen and had been there for 30 years and not cleaned with her addition. No idea how this was - but she showed me where she was. Another time my parents were having extensive work done on their house and moved temporarily into a rented house. My father, who is also scientific and maths orientated, described clearly a man sitting in a chair in the lounge at night. He mentioned it to a neighbour and they said oh yes that’s Stan - he died in that chair. My father had had no connection at all with this man or knowledge of him prior to this happening. Then another time I was in hospital fighting for my life and was at a very low point- major organ failure - and there was a clear warming around my shoulders that I couldn’t explain. I was immobile, attached to wires etc and suddenly it was like an arm had been put around me. From that point on my health gradually improved and after four months I finally got out of hospital. So although I still don’t believe, I also cannot quantify or explain these events. And I think if you over analyse such happenings then it will send you mad. Go with the feeling that you are loved and cared for and perhaps it was him. Remember him with love. Best wishes.

Although I’m Christian, I am also just open minded about things in general.

Whilst I’ve never experienced anything on this scale, there have been other little things that have cropped up.

My mom however, many many years ago before I was born, saw the ghost of her grandmother sit up (where my own grandmother was lying on the bed) and walk towards the door. She shook my Nan in shock and my Nan claimed she was being daft. But years later admitted to my mom that although she didn’t see anything she felt the bed sort of shaking/vibrating underneath her. She didn’t tell my mom at the time because mom was already so freaked out.

So yes I believe in this kind of stuff. I’ve always said just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I believe in scientific explanations for things but I also believe sometimes there are just things that science can’t explain.

I've seen and heard too much not to believe in some other worldly existence we cannot explain. My dad was the most down to earth logical person I've known and he encountered 2 'ghosts'. Once as a child and once in adulthood. He could explain neither but simply accepted that he experienced those things. He said they didn't hurt him, he couldn't logically explain their presence, they were just there, then they weren't. That's why I wasn't as shocked as I might have been when I experienced something similar myself in the cellar of a pub I worked in. Suffice to say that I acknowledged the presence of whatever or whoever it was every morning I entered that cellar following that day. Nothing much happened thereafter but I do have an open mind to the things we can't easily explain.

I think that for you to ‘feel’ it was your Dad and for you to have felt so emotional afterwards,there definitely was a connection.
This is a personal thing,everyone will have different thought,opinions and beliefs.
You know I’m your heart you believe it was your dad who offered you comfort and reassurance of his continued presence.
I too am a catholic and I believe in the after life and everything else - and I don’t think that love can just end with death,there has to be connection and you felt it.

The sensation wasn’t anything I’ve ever felt before either, I knew it wasn’t another human being... and the warmth then the pins and needles?! It was so bizarre but not scary. I felt like a baby being comforted

Do you know anything about ASMR OP? I get that same feeling from sounds or visual stimuli. I thin it's unlikely this was your father and was just something around you caused the feeling without you really paying attention.

I never would have believed any of this before loosing my older brother, now I can safely say I believe you. Even still to this day certain things just happen that give me comfort. "Gut" feelings,premonitions, visits from loved ones. All things we dont understand but I firmly believe they do happen. In fact I know they do.

Losing not loosing...

Made it into the Fail. Sigh, why do they have to ruin everything.

Total sceptic on all of this until.......I was taking part in important race abroad, I was warming up, doing exercises and running gently. My thoughts became dominated by my mother, I could almost hear the sorts of things she always said to me before a race. Anyway, I got onto the track, and I ran like I have rarely run. I won the race and set a new record. Throughout the race it was as if my mother was with me, willing me on, encouraging me, saying things. When I got off the track I was told to phone home. My mother had died 15 minutes before the start of my race (there nothing to suggest she was going to die prior to this). I now believe there is something, we humans don’t know or understand everything.

You can't prove that souls don't live on just as I can't prove they do

It doesn't work that way, bigcuddlytomcat. By definition, no-one can prove a negative, so the fact that they can't doesn't mean that they're wrong. If I were to proclaim that there is such a thing as the big purple sky monster, you couldn't prove that there isn't. It doesn't mean that I would be right. You would be perfectly entitled to challenge me to produce evidence of the big purple sky monster's existence and to say that, until I did so, you have to assume that that it's a myth.