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Original poster

Are all employers like this?

81 replies

WildThoughts89 · 09/12/2018 20:56

I feel a prisoner to my job. They have policies that make it impossible to have a life or get another job.

Including:

  • Not allowed to work from home unless very sick, we also need to email hourly updates if we do this
  • Holidays/time off work require 8 weeks notice, and often we are made to take these during the quietest time for the business
  • A 3 month notice period
  • Lunches are timed
  • Doctors appointments must be booked outside of work, dentist appointments must be during annual leave
  • One day of compassionate leave allowed a year
  • hospital appointments must be proven with a letter
  • We are asked during monthly meetings if we are thinking about another job

Wondering if this is normal? It makes me too paranoid to even think about moving on.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 10/12/2018 09:57

This is all very standard apart from the first two and the last one.

I'm shocked people are aghast at timed lunch breaks, it's very common to have for example an hour for lunch and to not be able to go over that. As is a contract with three months notice, not being able to work from home, or to do things like doctors or dentists outside the working day.

My view is when company put policies in like this it's because employees took the piss.

Alexandra2018 · 10/12/2018 10:00

My job is exactly like this are you timed making drinks and going to the loo like I am aswell??

LaurieMarlow · 10/12/2018 10:05

3 month notice periods are normal at a certain level of seniority. However I think it's ridiculous for more junior staff.

Surely it's illegal to deny a doctors appointment in work hours?

They sound like awful employers OP. What are you doing to get out of there?

Echobelly · 10/12/2018 10:06

Most of that sounds v over-the-top controlling to me. Is this a US-owned company? Because it's much more like practice there, where the employer basically owns you.

ChasedByBees · 10/12/2018 10:10

What would they do if someone said they are thinking of a new job?

3 months notice is normal in my field. Working at home depends on the job but if you’re sick, you should be off work sick not working from home.

BlueJava · 10/12/2018 10:12

Some is normal. some isn't:

Not working from home, booking leave well in advance and 3 months notice is normal in my view.

Hourly updates when sick and doc/dental appointments in your own time is unreasonable - especially the hourly updates! Personally I try and book doc/dentist in my own time anyway. Hospital appointments with a letter is often normal too.

Timing lunches is petty - but depends what sort of job you are in, if it's call centre and people have taken the piss in the past then this is where it has come from.

We are asked during monthly meetings if we are thinking about another job That's hilarious, I'd be saying something like "Yeah, why wouldn't I?" after I'd got my new job of course!

LaurieMarlow · 10/12/2018 10:16

We are asked during monthly meetings if we are thinking about another job

This really is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Who's going to answer honestly if they are?

PoisonousSmurf · 10/12/2018 10:17

OP, what about sickness? At my old job in a call center (15 years ago), they used to give you a disciplinary meeting and warning for having ONE day off sick. You had to fill in a self certification form.
If you have three (incidences) of being off sick, even if for one day you could be sacked!
So of course, people use to go off for months on stress, but they wouldn't lose their job.
But the people who caught every cold going, had to drag themselves in and infect everyone else or risk losing their livelyhood.

Grace212 · 10/12/2018 10:17

@Alexandra2018

I'm guessing they didn't tell you about the level of control at interview stage? What a nightmare.

LakieLady · 10/12/2018 10:26

Not normal!

We have monthly supervision meetings and monthly team meetings, but they're really flexible on all the other stuff. I've phoned in first thing and booked a day's leave on the same day before now, never been asked to prove a hospital appt, often work from home (especially before the first appt or after the last one, when it's really not worth going into the office for 30 minutes). Compassionate leave is on a scale, it's 5 days for the death of a parent for example, but this can be extended at the manager's discretion.

When my late mother died (very suddenly), the council were clamouring for me to clear the house out asap so they could relet it. My parents were hoarders, so it wasn't a 5-minute job and it was 150 miles away. My manager gave me an extra 5 days, and would have given me more, had I needed it.

Their attitude is one of the reasons why they often win awards for being a family-friendly employer and are in "100 top companies to work for" in the UK.

LakieLady · 10/12/2018 10:28

Hourly updates when sick and doc/dental appointments in your own time is unreasonable - especially the hourly updates!

Grin

I hope people with d&v phone through graphic updates of every puke and shart.

Seniorcitizen1 · 10/12/2018 10:36

I am an employer and wiuld never treat my staff like that. No restrictions on appointments, annual leave during the summer us expected, 1 months notice both ways. The staff are the business’ only asset so they are treated well - don’t understand why all employers don’t recognise this

AmyDowdensLeftLeftShoe · 10/12/2018 10:40

For the past 10 years I've turned down all roles without any form of flexible working.

I wouldn't accept strict timed lunches as I would try to get doctors/dentists appointments in them if I couldn't get them first thing in the morning. Also what are pregnant employees suppose to do? Their rules reach the laws around this.

I wouldn't do the long holiday notice either as I specifically avoid business busy times and so will take holiday at short notice.

Any business with these rules is going to find themselves in hot water if an employee gets a health condition which is recognised as a disability.

Alexandra2018 · 10/12/2018 10:47

@Grace212 I've been there a long time it's something they have brought in over the last few years

Ollivander84 · 10/12/2018 10:55

@AmyDowdensLeftLeftShoe I have a couple of health conditions. No way I could see the doctors in my lunch anyway as it's a strictly timed 30 mins
If I need an appointment then I either take a half day, annual leave or work the hours back

Grace212 · 10/12/2018 10:59

@Alexandra2018

was there a mass exodus after they introduced these rules?

CountessOfNowhere · 10/12/2018 11:09

  • I'm not allowed to work from home at all, no provision for it.

  • There are a certain amount of holiday hours allocated for each day. It's first come first served to get them.

  • I think it's 4 weeks notice at my work. 3 months seems a long time.

  • Lunch is strictly 30 mins and at a set time. This is to ensure adequate staffing levels. We can ask to move the time or to extend lunch and stay late instead and that's considered, depending again on staffing levels. Managers do their best to accommodate.

  • We get 1 hour for doctors appointments etc, anything on top of that we pay the time back. Most of us try to book outside of working hours.

  • Same, one day paid compassionate leave per year. Exception would be death of a partner or parent or child of course.

  • We have to provide proof of hospital appointments. Seems fair to me, you're going to have a letter if your appointment is genuine.

  • The meeting thing is batshit. Who would ever say yes to that?

HauntedPencil · 10/12/2018 11:26

I've been treated like this in some jobs when I was much younger.

I wouldn't want to now, I'm on a 3 month notice but the rest of the stuff I think it pretty distrustful.

I think you generally do need to give a bit of notice for leave and we have one month of the year we aren't allowed to book without discussing it as it's busy. But apart from that it's flexible.

ReflectentMonatomism · 10/12/2018 11:45

A 3 month notice period- this depends on companies

Notice periods longer than a week are unlikely to be practically enforceable, if you actually want to leave.

Past a week, you're in breach of contract, not your statutory obligations. In practice, it will be very difficult for the employer to show they have lost any more than the wages, which obviously they didn't pay anyway. There are edge cases, and the more senior/specialised you are the more likely it is that it can be claimed that either your absence causes substantial losses or (although UK law is very reluctant to enforce this) you shouldn't be working for a competitor. But if you're one of many in the office doing roughly the same job? Meh. In some professions you'll get a very bad reputation, and teachers shouldn't try this, but I've watched a university lecturer give two weeks' notice and leave; although there was a lot of anger, in the end there wasn't a lot anyone could do outside the fantasises of marching people into seminar rooms at gunpoint.

So in practice, if you collect your last pay cheque on your last day of the month, having told them seven days previously that you intend to leave, then don't show up on the first of the month, there is precious little an employer can do. You have given your statutory notice, and after that it's breach of contract. Actions for breach of contract involves showing a loss greater than your wages, which courts will not accept that unless there are exceptional circumstances; few HR professionals would want to become a laughingstock amongst their colleagues for trying it.

flumpybear · 10/12/2018 12:25

Are you an NHS doctor?

metronome1 · 10/12/2018 12:29

Do you work in a nursery op?

A lot are like this. I have had many jobs in nurseries where the staff are treat like rubbish and micro managed. One was so strict it knocked my confidence and made me anxious.
My work is flexible now and I mange my own time. I still get very anxious taking time off/starting later or taking a longer lunch for example because of my time in my previous jobs. Like today I took the morning off (childcare issues) and will catch up on my hours, my boss is totally fine with this as I had no meetings etc, but I have spent the morning feeling anxious about it and clock watching.
Don't let it get to that for you op

sonandhelpneeded · 10/12/2018 12:43

To those who say this is due to staff taking the piss, I'd disagree!

In my experience it is nasty, grabby employers wanting more and more! I had one of the "you need to give XX notice for holidays", one staff member got tickets for a show (won them) so could only give a weeks notice of ONE days leave!

The fuss was unbelievable, the funny thing was they never covered leave and you just had to catch up when you got back....!

Not all employers are like this!

FloralTeacup · 10/12/2018 12:55

@metronome1

Could’ve written that myself. I’m also in a far better position now, but still get needlessly anxious about things.

It’s absolutely micro-managing; strict policies and procedures for the sake of it. Despite working 10.5 hour shifts, we only had one (timed) 30 min break all day. I would be starving on an afternoon, but we weren’t allowed to eat in front of the children! I mean for heavens sake... no need for it.

abacucat · 10/12/2018 12:59

And employers who treat staff like this have difficulty recruiting and retaining good staff. It is why they are asking you on a monthly basis if you are planning to leave. It is because they have difficulty retaining staff I suspect.

Cheerbear23 · 10/12/2018 13:02

I’ve worked several places and the no WFH (ever) is usual in some places, it just depends if it’s part of the culture. However being asked if you are thinking of looking for another job I’d just plain weird! Has anyone ever admitted that??
I think the timed lunch breaks can be normal, as others could be waiting to go, but 8 weeks notice og holiday is ridiculous! On balance I think it’s too much / too strict.