PND

[Gigglyjig]

I'm being unreasonable posting this here, I know. But the PND board is so quiet. I've name changed because I'm ashamed to even write any of this.

I have a 3 year old and a 3 month old, was diagnosed with PND about 6 weeks ago. Not on any medication as the few times I've been on anti depressants, the side effects have always outweighed the benefits. I'm on a waiting list for counselling. I just feel very overwhelmed right now and don't know how to cope.

Baby is a terrible sleeper, will sleep 2 hours when we first go to bed if I'm lucky and then is up every 20-30 minutes for no reason that I can find (he is formula fed and won't take a bottle until around 2am). I'm beyond struggling to adjust to life with a baby and older child. I let the baby cry a hell of a lot more than I ever let DS1 cry. I'm in floods of tears every night when he finally falls asleep and wakes up not even half an hour later. I feel like I have no bond with him even though he was a much planned second baby. He was in NICU for the first week and I didn't get to hold him until he was 3 days old, visiting him in NICU was like looking at someone else's baby.
He wont sleep in the evening unless its on me or his dad and I am so fed up of not being able to even get up and pee. When he cries I just feel like I don't know what to do with him, I can't seem to settle him. He cried for 2 hours solid the other morning and finally fell asleep In his swing ten minutes before I had to leave to take my older son to nursery. I'm going to be ripped apart for this and I'm ashamed to admit it but I went out to nursery and left baby asleep at home in his swing. He was thankfully fine and still asleep when I got back twenty minutes later but then the guilt set in and I bawled my eyes out realising just how shit of a mother I'm being to him. I also left in the middle of the night a few weeks ago, after waking DH up and giving him the baby, and sat at the train station until the morning with every intention of pissing off somewhere. But I couldn't leave without DS1, which makes me feel awful that I want him but not his baby brother.

Most of my problems are with DH atm though and I don't really know why because he is generally great. I'm really resenting DH because he sleeps through it all, if I wake him up he will happily help out but it feels pointless to wake him when I'm already up and won't be able to sleep through the noise. He gets up with the kids on his days off so I can sleep in but it's not enough. I fainted from pure exhaustion the other day.
I resent him because he gets to go out to work and talk to adults, I've been a SAHM since DS1 was born as we can't afford for me to work.
I resent him because he doesn't seem to realise how bloody miserable I am and tries to carry on as normal and I find myself cringing when he tries to make jokes or when he tries to initiate sex. I couldn't feel less sexy if I tried. I'm exhausted, I'm the heaviest I've ever been, my stomach is saggy and full of stretch marks and I've got a pouch from 2 EMCS that I can't seem to shift. We've had sex a handful of times since baby was born but I feel like I'm forcing myself to do it. He never pressures me and happily takes no for an answer, its me that's pressuring myself for some reason. I'm scared to tell him no in case he gets fed up and leaves (never given any indication that he would), but then in the same breath my mind is going crazy thinking about leaving him because he just irritates the shit out of me right now.
He's trying to support me but I feel like he doesn't really get how serious it is, I was practically on my knees begging him to take time off work the other week

This morning I've snapped at DH yet again as he went to work on a nice 7 hours of sleep whilst I was up most of the night and I've told him I'll be gone when he gets home. Something I've said to him a lot recently.

The only other help I have is from my mum but she isn't fit enough to look after a baby, but she does take DS1 overnight every now and again. As great as that is, it still leaves me with a screaming unsettled baby.

Not sure what I'm hoping for by posting this and I thank anyone that takes the time to read it. I'm just hoping someone else will have been where I am and can tell me it gets better, I think. I also know some will probably read this and judge me but you won't be thinking anything I don't already think of myself.

I've been similar. It does get better. Are you on meds?

I had PND with first but not with second.

I found a 3 year gap difficult because elder child's needs were mainly intellectual whereas babies' needs are mainly physical, so I felt like a split personality.

Don't worry about the bonding - I'd say it took 18 months to bond with my first.

Yes, it does get better, but it's difficult to realise on a day to day basis. I kept a diary, because when you're feeling rubbish, it's only by looking through the diary you realise you felt even more rubbish a months ago.

There are always lights on and sounds in Nicu, going from that to quiet at night can be a very big change for some babies. Have you tried white noise with him?

Regarding your "Velcro baby" (totally normal by the way!) are you comfortable babywearing? a stretchy wrap will keep him close and also give you your hands free for your toddler.

I would very seriously recommend calling your doctor or HV. I know you say you've have antidepressants before and shit side affects but there are innumerable options available and so trying a different drug may be a good solution for you.

When I'm emotionally screwed (anxiety is where my brain goes to) I have found that writing things down helps. Even if it's to show your husband because articulating face to face is too hard.

You are making choices that you know are wrong. You need help ASAP, you really really need to speak to someone. I know you've tried meds before, but now may be the time to try again. Have you had a serious sit down chat with your husband to tell him just how bad you are feeling?

While you're on the waiting list, can your DH give you an hour each evening when he's home from work so that you can get out and go for a walk or go to an exercise class? I had a similar age gap with my children and PND with both. I found exercise and just hearing my own thoughts instead of the demands of others to be so valuable. Hail, rain or shine I left the house and pounded the pavement on my first. On my second I'd go for a run or to a class, I was still so angry at times but it was such a release.

Firstly, so sorry you’re feeling this way. There’s no need to apologise or feel guilty for feelings you can’t control at the moment. I only have the one as a birth trauma left me with secondary infertility so can’t comment on that dynamic but I was separated from my baby for several days at the start due to us both being v ill. What I do know about that situation is that you can often feel excluded from caring for your baby (through necessity - but it doesn’t feel any better) and the process of bonding with your baby has been disturbed. If your baby was very poorly it’s common to stop yourself bonding as a means of self protection. It was 6 months before I fell asleep one night and woke up with the baby next to me and had that rush of love for him. Up to that point everything is done had been out of duty rather than love. Your baby has a rough start in life and he might still be uncomfortable from being so poorly at the start and need more cuddles from you, maybe try baby wearing if possible so you can have the closeness without being tied down.

Although I didn’t suffer from pnd I had ptsd and found specific face book groups very helpful in letting me know I wasn’t alone. Can you have a search on Facebook to see if there is anything that you think you can relate to. I’m not sure about the circumstances around your birth but if relevant the birth trauma association page is perhaps the most supportive group in existence

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. Can you afford a Nanny/mothers help to give you a little bit of time?
I agree that exercise can help, pushing the buggy each day if that's all you can. My PND eventually lifted once I was able to start feeling even a little like me again. Until then I felt like a robot who knew what I should be doing.
I'd also sit your DH down calmly and say that you need help. That you're struggling and he needs to work out a way to help before you break completely.
I'd also suggest taking nights in shifts during a waking phase. So you get 4 hours solid, then DH gets 4 hours. It's amazing how much better it feels when you have sleep.

A diary sounds like a good idea because in my head every day is worse than the last when that probably isn't the case.

We have white noise on all night but it only helps settle him to sleep, doesn't help him stay asleep. He is swaddled for sleep as he has bad eczema and is constantly scratching at it, but he's strong enough now to wriggle out of it and that keeps him awake too. He doesn't like the swaddle bags.

I do have a sling but haven't actually used it yet. Lots of problems with my c section wound have stopped me using it but I might give it a try now. Haven't been given the go ahead for any excersise other than walking or a light jog, which I think is bothering me too as going to the gym was my downtime after my first. I normally have a bath or do some reading when DH gets home but perhaps I'll try a walk.

I have spoken to DH about how bad I'm feeling, and he honestly is very caring and tries his best to understand and see what he can do to help. But it's almost like he forgets after a few days. I'll talk about taking it in shifts tonight. He had suggested he stay up all night with him before but I know he'll fall asleep holding him, never really occurred to me to do shifts!

Will definitely look up the birth trauma association page. Although I was booked in for a planned c section this time around, it turned in to another emergency one. I am booked in to see my GP again but couldn't get an appointment until the first week in January now.

Thank you for all the suggestions. I really do appreciate it.

OP, I can't say everything I want to here as I'm under time pressure this morning but firstly and most importantly I wanted to say that anti-depressants had never helped me in the past either but they saved my LIFE with PND. I was so reluctant to take them but they changed EVERYTHING and I went from a suicidal wreck who prayed my baby would die in the night so my life could go back to normal to a functioning parent within weeks, and a few months later I was a happy, loving mum, fully bonded with my daughter and able to cope. Please do consider them again, I really think they'd help.

There's a great thread from someone who was in your exact situation - I posted a lot on that thread and I think it would be helpful for you to read it. Will come back with a link shortly.

I agree with peachgreen, please go back to your GP and talk it over.
Also, lack of sleep made me feel utterly desperate - and I didnt have a c section. Is there any way you can get someone else to do a night shift so you can sleep and have a lie in?

Here we go: Everything feels impossible http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/3343090-everything-feels-impossible

This OP has two children with about the same age gap and felt very similarly to you. She was able to get help and recovered really well. I hope you find it helpful.

Hi OP - I’m very sorry you are going through this.

Just as an aside - I see you mention bad eczema and I wondered if anyone had ever considered a milk allergy? My baby was an awful, awful baby at night in particular and he hardly slept. He was impossible to soothe, he usually only fell asleep out of exhaustion and then within 45 minutes he’d be awake crying again. I took him to the GP thinking that maybe he had reflux and the GP commented that my baby had eczema, bad cradle cap and generally dry skin and he suggested a milk intolerance and that bad skin in babies is usually due to this. He said an allergy may also account for the bad sleep because of how much discomfort/pain he would be in with his stomach.

He was breast feeding so I went dairy free and the improvement was amazing. His skin was clear withIn a few weeks and he slept so much better too. He was also started on ranitidine as reflux can go hand in hand with dairy intolerance. My baby was 9 weeks of age when this happened.

You absolutely need to take care of yourself but it may be worth looking into possible medical reasons why your baby isn’t sleeping as if that can be sorted then you in turn will get more sleep.

It’s just a suggestion OP, but your baby sounds just like how mine was.

On an aside, forget your sense of shame OP. You're not to blame for this. Shame is a useless emotion here. You should be proud of the fact that you're seeking help. Very best of luck

Thank you peachgreen. I've had a quick skim through the thread, it honestly sounds like I could have written it which is a bit scary. Will have a proper read later when I get the chance.

QueenofmyPrinces Yes he does have CMPA. He's on nutramigen for it, its only been a week though. Was a nightmare trying to get someone to take us seriously about it, it was only after an overnight stay in hospital that the doctors there prescribed him the milk and epaderm cream for his skin. His skin definitely isn't as red and blotchy as it normally was after a feed but no signs of sleep improving yet. I am hoping it will help, its just the waiting that's killing me.

Nutramigen still has CMP in it, it’s just that it’s more broken down than it is in normal formulas. Some babies still react whilst on Nutramigen and so need formulas that are completely free of CMP like Neocate or Aptamil Pepsi. Just be mindful that if another week passes and there’s still no measurable improvement then it might be worth asking to trial one of the above formulas. I really hope you get on top of it because it’s awful for the babies and awful for us to have to watch them in such pain/discomfort.

It’s no surprise at all that you are struggling and as has been said, please don’t feel ashamed about anything you have said, nobody on here will judge you. The fact you’ve come on here and asked for help is a really good first step

Could you go and spend the odd night with your mum to catch up on some sleep? Please talk to your HV ASAP about just how low you are feeling, she should have access to support and can also probably expedite the doctor appointment.

You can and will feel better than this. Keep talking to your mum and dh.

Take each and every opportunity to self care. Nice smells, a bunch of flowers, favourite food. And if anyone ever asks if they can help say yes.

@Gigglyjig There's a link in that thread to my own PND thread as I also felt scarily similar. PND manifests in very common but horrible ways. You are not alone

My daughter had CMPA too - the Nutramigen took about two weeks to start working properly but it really helped. It's so hard when you have feeding issues, can be a real trigger.