AIBU to ask people not to joke about alcoholism?

[Dollymouse]

Staff 'do'last night and I am a no-drinker and have been for some years because I am an alcoholic. This is not public knowledge at work - my boss knows because I told him, but otherwise we tend to stay anonymous. But sometimes it drives me mad when people make jokes about alcoholism! When they are drinking a lot - "I am not an alcoholic or anything" or worse when they gather around a table and jokingly introduce themselves as if in an AA meeting. I mean you would not joke about any other form of mental illness - would you? Or am I being oversensitive? It doesn't REALLY bother me - I mean - they don't know so they just think its banter - but actually its really backward isn't it?

I've had friends who have gone out and drunk and have died - alcoholism really is no joke and I've had friends who have taken their own life - its a shitty mental condition that is only relieved by drinking or recovery. I am pleased to say I choose the latter.

Oh fuck off.
Seriously? I'd say that there are pretty fucking strong odds that Crumbles has had (at least a part of) her life wrecked by someone else's addiction and that's how you respond? I have absolute admiration for anyone who recognises that their relationship with alcohol is dangerous and/or damaging and does the hard work necessary to turn it around. But part of that is realising that they may have treated others absolutely appallingly and possibly genuinely unforgivably while in the thrall of their addiction and the people they hurt have a right to their feelings too. There is no excuse for that kind of response.

People use humour to deal with things. Alcoholics wreck lives, why does everyone have to pussyfoot around them when they’ve no doubt spent years doing whatever they want. I do agree with this. Reality is that we are expected to sympathise with the alcoholic at the point they have given up drinking and are dealing with their addiction which is fair enough. But let’s not pretend that addiction is something which happens in isolation. People destroy the lives of their families, friends, those around them. Drink drivers will kill people and leave others with life-long disabilities all because of their own selfishness. Why should we sympathise with that?

Personally I agree that gin is revolting but people appear to like it, and in truth most alcohol isn’t that addictive that people have a shot and are hooked. It takes time and choice to become addicted. And it’s a choice to put your drink ahead of your family or the life of the small child you might kill on your way home from the pub.

I used to work for a company which had a free bar at the Xmas do. People used to get absolutely smashed and I found that a bit pathetic in itself, as I find it sad that people go out every weekend with the idea of getting smashed. But I draw the line when their habits start to affect the lives of those around them.

Trance I was talking to an elderly cancer patient the other day. He felt awful for the impact his illness has on his wife, poor bloke actually felt guilty for what it puts her through. For people to say 'fuck off' with regards to someone saying that alcoholism destroys lifes and affects others is really bloody low

Interesting responses. I never said I was offended if people asked me why I don't drink - I am not offended at all. I usually will out myself if I think it will helpful. Sometimes i don't because it can make people uncomfortable.

AND I didn't say that alcohol is addictive - I can be addicted to anything and will often move that addiction around food, shopping, etc - it's all about not feeling comfortable with myself and wanting to change the way I feel. The addiction is my stuff and is not about the substance - and I am not asking for pity. I just find it a bit of a shame that alcoholism is not better understood - but I do understand why.

Yes - alcoholics wreck lives. It's a disease/illness/condition (whatever you interpret it as) that is damaging to more than just the user. I've met people who have lost everything and are now sober, but still living with the consequences of their actions.

I think it is a disease. Some people just have an addictive personality or gene
And it's really hard for them to recover while alcohol is all around them.
Heroin and cocaine are not available in supermarkets or your corner shop. So they are easier to avoid and distance yourself from.
Well done OP for recovering.
As for the jokes that's because society accepts borderline alcoholism and binge drinking for fun.
Alcoholics do ruin their own lives but they can't just stop. They can ruin others lives too not just by drink driving but when someone you love and live with is passed out on the kitchen floor after waking you up at 4 am and you re cleaning up a pile of vomit it's awful but they can be very sorry next day and really hate themselves.
They're not doing it for fun

I think the ones "joking" about it are the ones who are secretly concerned about their own level of drinking, those who are drinking heavily and saying things like "i'm not an alchoholic or anything" are convincing themselves I think that they don't in fact have a problem with alcohol.

I agree with you OP. I see alcoholism as a progressive terminal illness yet the only one that it seems acceptable to joke about.

‘Alcoholic’ is used in such a derogatory, jokey way it makes it hard for someone who has a problem with alcohol to actually admit they’re alcoholic. There’s also an astonishing amount of ignorance and judgement on Mumsnet for alcoholics. Nobody chooses the misery of addiction.

Well done on staying sober, know that you’re not the only one quietly biting their tongue!

It is very unreasonable to expect other people to consider every remark they make with a view to how it will play to minority groups who may or may not be present when they speak.

If they were being openly hostile to people with alcohol issues you might have a point. The casual remarks that you reported, are just that, casual remarks. I doubt that the speakers thought about them for more than a nanosecond before the words left their mouth, and it took about the same length of time for them to forget about them after they did.

You have kept quiet about your history, which is your right. But you cannot expect people to police their words (other than for serious issues such as racism, sexism etc) in case someone, somewhere takes offence.

Just take it in the spirit that it was meant, casual chit chat, and then forget about it

My sister and I enjoy a few glasses of prosecco together. Some of the things being sold mentioning prosecco are funny in our circumstances.
Should I not be allowed to buy them in case it upsets an alcoholic?

OP you know full well those flippant comments are not made at you or with the purpose of upsetting you. Therefore you are choosing to be offended with no good reason. If you feel that strongly then be straight with people and tell that alcohol is a very sensitive subject for you. People aren’t telepathic, and at the end of the day if we are all worrying about any possible offence being taken from any one off comment then conversation will dry up completely!

Alcohol is a big problem. However, people have always used humour about the bad and scary things in life, incuding death and illness. And those jokes are often made by people who have been affected by those things. People deal with such things in their own ways. I don't think you can expect to be able to stop them doing that tbh.

Frank Skinner has spent decades making jokes about alcoholism, and he used to be one. George Best used to joke about his alcoholism that eventually killed him.

Alcoholism has a funny side to it, as do most serious issues. People will joke about it. That's not a bad thing.

Get over yourself.

Well done on your sobriety

I mean this very kindly and gently but I do think maybe you’re being over sensitive (sorry)!!!

There is a lot of British and Irish humour around all sorts of innaprropeiete things like disease, death, violence and addiction. It’s a way of coping with the shot life through a at us. It’s understandable that you feel sensitive given the mammoth sobriety task looming over the festive period. KOKO

Alcoholism has a funny side to it, as do most serious issues. People will joke about it. That's not a bad thing

I think the issue is who is telling the joke. Your examples come from two alcoholics and they’ve every right to make light of their own situation. If you go to an AA meeting you can laugh your socks off at some of the stories. It’s when people mock alcoholics it’s gets cringey. There are a few times I’ve curled up on the inside at stand-up comedians making derogatory comments about alcoholics in a way nobody would about other minority groups.

I know recovering alcoholics who joke about their condition - is that acceptable?

There are a few times I’ve curled up on the inside at stand-up comedians making derogatory comments about alcoholics in a way nobody would about other minority groups.

Yes, because no one ever makes jokes about drug addicts, schizophrenia, nervous drivers, phobias, fat people, anorexics, dyslexics, and loads of other stuff that effects a minority of people.

Is it a mental illness though? And is it a 'disease'? Alcoholism may be the product of a mental illness (I.e. anxiety) and it is sometimes the cause of mental illness. But it is not, in and of itself, a mental illness is it?

Well done on your sobriety, op and I do think the term 'alcoholic' and 'alcoholism', and society's general view around the acceptability of getting trollied, are bandied around recklessly with a huge amount of derision. But to call it mental illness belies the fact that when people choose to drink excessively, they progressively lose the ability to control their level of drinking.

The sober, previously serial abusers of alcohol in my life would be the first to own their mistakes. And they certainly do not view it as mental illness. Or in fact a disease.

But yanbu that society's laissez faire attitude to alcohol is unhelpful in the extreme.

It happens with everything though. People will casually say 'oh I just felt like killing myself' and may be unaware that someone in the group has lost someone to suicide.
Or people will say sarcastically to someone 'have you lost the use of your legs' which some could construe as joking about disability.

And as we have seen on some recent threads on here, people make casual and hurtful remarks about those without children, causing huge pain to the involuntarily childless.

Unfortunately, people cannot watch every single word they say. Obviously some people are just appallingly tactless and thoughtless, but others are just using terminology that's become so normal they don't really think about it.

But threads like this are useful in letting us know how people in a particular situation feel and making us think a bit before we speak.

Yes, because no one ever makes jokes about drug addicts, schizophrenia, nervous drivers, phobias, fat people, anorexics, dyslexics, and loads of other stuff that effects a minority of people

You’re right. Make a joke like that in a comedy club and you’ll die on your hole.

"I was mortified and wished the ground would have opened up and swallowed me" (oi....have some compassion for earthquake victims)

"I laughed my head off" (what a terrible thing to say, my uncle was decapitated in a dreadful workplace accident)

Can I just ask where this "I'm so offended" nonsense ends?

People joke and make light of all sorts of dark subjects. I think, in some ways, when people draw a similarly between themselves and others who struggle with illnesses, conditions and failings, it can be a way of acknowledging that we are all vulnerable, funny, flawed and ridiculous in our own way, really - I mean, that's the point, isn't it?

Alcohol addiction aside, i do find the whole giggle girly “aren’t we naughty” let’s have a cheeky glass prosecco o’clock crap utterly nauseating.

It does enable alcoholism, because these days it’s practically impossible to be teetotal and not be thought of as the odd one. It’s a bit of fun, not a serious problem.

I do find it very, very scary when there’s one of those “dry january” type things, the amount of people who cannot go a month without an alcoholic drink. Or even two weeks. Again giggling about how terribly naughty they were to have a few glasses of wine.

I don’t remember people drinking at home when i was a child. It was nights out only, or in the few weeks before christmas where visitors would be offered a drink from the freshly stocked cabinet. These days i know many people who habitually will have two or three glasses a night.

Totally agree @reallyanotherone. A friend commented the other day that so many adult birthday cards depict alcohol. I’d be horrified to get one, as if someone thought of what I like most and ‘alcohol’ was the answer.

Also on Mumsnet the answer to most problems is this emoji:

People make jokes we make jokes about human behaviour.

How do you know some of these people don't have a drink problem and drink with it through humour?

Or maybe they are the family of an alcoholic whose life is being slowly destroyed by their loved one choosing booze?

You have no right to judge anyone for making joke. They aren't say things like 'alcoholics are scum'

You have no right to judge anyone for making joke

OP has every right to judge someone for making a joke. And the person making the joke has every right to not care about OP's judgement, and in turn to judge the OP as over sensitive.