Retirement age for ladies - why so upset? R2 debate

[AiryFairyUnicornRainbow]

Listening to R2 today - a lot of ladies (who have picketed for equality all their lives, presumably) are now up in arms, that their retirement age has moved in line with mens

So before, women could retire at 60 and men 65 - but womens age was 60.

What exactly are pple upset about?

Have ladies been requesting equality since the dawn of time?

Why do you feel hard done by, when my Generation (your sons and daughters) will have to work long past your retirement age?

I have a relative, who is completely up in arms about this, but has only worked probably 15 years in her working life - as was the done thing stayed at home with kids way beyond school age. No private pension, nothing. Yet is a massive womens libber.

These days, women are felt rushed back into work the minute they give birth, and are literally worked to death. SAHM's are frowned upon by the working mothers

HildegardCrowe

Bully for you!

I gave up my job in a bank when DC1 was born, because this is what most of us did. We didn’t have childcare available back then. I supported my DH, whilst he carried on with his career and company pension. I had another child and continued as a SAHM.

DH moved out when the youngest DC was four. I remember being terrified about becoming homeless and paying the bills. I got a job as a lollipop lady to try and make ends meet and still care for my children. DH never paid a penny in maintenance, there was very little we could do back then. I went to a number of building societies to see if I could get any sort of mortgage, I remember being told to go home and talk to my husband.

That’s just a snapshot of how it was back then.

The fact that women have been historically underpaid/disadvantaged is irrelevant to this argument

I vehemently disagree with this statement! The changes have been brought in under the guise of equality, yet the 1950s women who are most affected by the changes in their pension have suffered from inequality for most of their lives.

My father didn’t think women should work, so didn’t even need educating, so I grew up disadvantaged from the start.

So a group of women, already disadvantaged, are now being robbed of money, which they were promised. How is that any sort of equality?

Travis, no I didn't have a work pension.

Yes I was earning a good wage but, it seems silly now, but then no one talked about private pensions. It honestly never crossed my mind. Friends of a similar age to me also never paid into private pensions nor did my sibling who is 2 years younger.

By the time I did think about a pensions (and was obviously a lot older) I would have had to pay such a lot of money a month I just could not have afforded it. Also by this time I had a much lower paying job.

No I don't still have a mortgage but I also now live in an area which house prices barely rise. In the last 10 years I think our house has gone up about £10,000

Hofuckingho yes bully for me. All my jobs have been low paid and I've never in my life been in any way supported by a man. I was briefly married and in fact supported my husband. I've been solely financially responsible for my daughter.

I knew from a very young age that financial independence was important and made sure I saved what little I could. I intend to work well into my late 60s, not because I have to but because I want to.

Many claim to want equality but the fact is many don't. If everyone did then nobody would be moaning that they have to work as long as men.

The gender pay gap will always exist whilst so many women don't work for long periods of time or go part time. I'm always amazed at the amount who think you can't parent and work. Then pensions are unequal which has consequences too.

Maybe more parents now will teach girls to be self reliant as given how many are just encouraged to look for a man with money we will never have equality. It seems lots wants to pick and choose the benefits and leave the hard work to the men.

Nice to see some women affected like this can see how selfish and grabby the waspi women are :)

I was born in the early 50s and I did have plenty of notice of the initial changes but people just a few months younger than me were not kept in the picture about the further changes and the increased rate of change. As a baby boomer I acknowledge that I had some advantages (going to university on a full grant, a small house that doubled in value). However for women life has completely changed. There was no maternity leave until 1979 and initially there were many regulations about length of service. The whole benefit system was based on the model of a male head of household and a SAHM. Any 50s woman who has been divorced will have suffered financially. Single parents were vilified in the press as were mothers of latch key kids. There was poor child care provision. 50s women have got caught between the male head of household model and the new model where married couples are treated more as individuals. I have not been affected greatly myself as I retired at 62 and also have an NHS pension from a middle ranking job, but some people have been badly affected. For what it's worth I do think an awful lot is expected of young mothers today. There is still a tendency to hold women responsible for caring and expect them to work hard at a career also. As did many others I struggled through my 50s with care of the elderly a d full time work.

Many claim to want equality but the fact is many don't. If everyone did then nobody would be moaning that they have to work as long as men

I’m all for equality. I would argue that, for this group of women, having suffered from inequality for most of their lives, the moral way of changing retirement age would have been to introduce it gradually.

For example when the NHS pension changed the changes were for new entrants into the scheme, not the ones who had paid in for years and had made plans accordingly. Why they couldn’t have done something similar for the state pension is a mystery.

weirdpenguin. Great post. It would be good to see women of all ages standing together in the fight against inequality, instead of posting some of the unfortunate words on here!

The change has been advertised for many years.

The state pension is a safety net, not a way to maintain your lifestyle.

Are you feeling quite alright?

Please don’t forget that the majority of people leaving school in the 1060s did not have the opportunity to go on to further education and many started work the week after they left school, myself included. I was lucky to stay on until 16 taking GCEs but many left at 15!

No years of college, uni and then a gap year to go travelling etc! So by the time you reached 60 you had already worked 45 years.
Some friends children hadn’t even started work until they were 25!

Lots of info here on the problems around the pension changes: www.waspi.co.uk/background-information/

I'm disappointed at the lack of empathy shown by some posters. I think maybe some don't realise the privilege they have and how difficult it is for some to have the means to plan for their retirement.

"The state pension is a safety net, not a way to maintain your lifestyle" I hope my above post goes some way to explaining why many 50s women are having to rely on the state pension and haven't had the opportunity to build up a private pension. Those who seem well off have probably had long marriages and are relying on their husband's pension income.

I wish women would stand together more. I find a lot of subtle ageism on MN, a lot of stereotyping

I don’t understand the outcry. I grew up in NZ and it was always the same 65yo for both men and women. It should be the same. Why should men work 5 years longer? Especially they die younger on average?

Ageism? Have boomer women stood up for the ridiculous house prices, tuition fees and the fact that many younger women will likley never retire?

State pension should have been linked with life expectancy many many years ago.

As women's life expectancy is higher and they are both the same you could say women are still getting a very good deal with the state pension.

No one is saying that women should not retire at the same age as men, they are complaining about the way it has been implemented,

I am a baby boomer. I am quite political and I am appalled at the way some policies are affecting younger people. The advantaged in society continue to feather their own nests. It is a class issue not a generational one. Please don't stereotype older people Nickiredcar.

I'm retiring at 50. I will get there as already paid off my mortgage and have other assets that I'm building up to provide a good income.

I'm 48, I can't imagine wanting to retire in 2 years! Presumably if you can afford to do this you have qualifications and a well paid job? So go and find a useful and rewarding job to fill your later life and give back to society a bit.

As far as the private pension comment goes my Mum was born in 1947 and had a private pension, they have been around a long time. But I am increasingly aware that many people are a bit useless at personal finance, I'm constantly amazed by some of the things DHs family do (all educated professionals).

I don't see what the big issue is though if you're working, surely you just keep working. My company pension is so shite (wasn't when I started but the company has changed it so I now will only get about 10% of my current salary) that I am expecting to work into my 70s and that's the reality for most younger people so complaining about retiring at 66 seems a bit . I'm happy to work as long as I'm in good health.

I'm making generalisations as I really don't like this "women supporting women" thing, as often it just highlights the hypocrisy.

@bluebellation I disagree. The change may have actually happened swiftly, but they said it was coming way back in the 90’s giving you over 20 years to prepare!!

I don't think women should uncritically support women but a cross the generations there are things in common. Women give birth and despite a move to less role differentiation between men and women there remains a perception that they will be responsible for caring roles in the family. It can result in either financial disadvantage or working to the point of exhaustion..Although I fall into the age group affected by this it wouldn't be my first priority if I was in charge of policy. I am frustrated though that some posters can't see how people who have had low paid work have had difficulty making provision for their retirement (and that those working now will continue to find it difficult). Those saying that they will just keep working do remember that continuing good health is a lottery and the chances of illness increase with age

I won’t get state pension until 67. However my occupational pension age is 60. I have worked full time for 38 years with no breaks. I plan to retire next year aged 58 as my employer is offering voluntary early exit. I realise I’m lucky to be in a position to do this.

People on low pay being unable to afford to retire isn't anything new or unique. What's different is for a short period of time baby boomers on low pay could have 30+ years of a reasonable life of retirement.

This was never going to last, it's just going back to how it's always been and the waspi women on the whole are still doing really really well out of the situation.

Free bus pass, full housing benefit and pension credits plus other benefits is a decent standard of living. The country can't afford to have many being financially dependant on state benefits for several decades.