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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want biological children?

42 replies

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 05/12/2018 15:33

Ok so I uave a lot of things "wrong" with me. I have pretty severe mental health issues such as severe depression, anxiety, body dysmorphia, OCD and probably something I'm forgetting. I also have fibromyalgia. I've had all these things since I was a teenager. I've had doubts for a while about whether or not to have biological children.

This is not for my sake, it's for the child's. There is a genetic component with these types of health problems and if I thought that there was even a chance that my child could inherit the same issues that I've been through I don't think I could handle that. Now there is nothing wrong with anybody who has these types of conditions. They come in varying degrees and depending on the severity and the treatment they can be managed. But I just have the sinking feeling that they'll inherit my depression genes or something. That doesnt mean that I won't love them if they do, because of course I will. If we do penultimately decide to go down the adoption route and they have one of these issues or maybe several I will still of course love them to death. I just want to give the kid the best odds.

I didnt think this was a bad thing. My partner completely understands and is so supportive and my mum, but I have had friends and my gran tell me that I'm being "silly"? I have had these issues all my life and struggled with a whole range of issues. This isn't something that I've decided on a whim, yet I've had people tell me I'm "being selfish" since im one of two people in my entire family that can carry on the genes (ie. Bad eyesight, depression, heart attacks, strokes, drinking problems, autism). I do still really want children, so does my partner, but I really do not think I want to have biological children. For the most part, people seem to understand and fully support our decision. Do you think I'm being unreasonable? I genuinely would like to hear your takes on it, this isn't a pitchfork situation here. Thank you Smile

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Tobythecat · 06/12/2018 08:58

I have autism and ive decided not to have children. I wish more people with health issues would give it more thought to be honest as i think its unethical, but im sure people will be defensive about that.

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 09:16

@RightSaidErica I'm sorry to hear that. That's when I really think about it too, when it gets bad. Sometimes i think it will be fine during the periods where it's almost not even there, and then it get really bad. That's how it always is unfortunately for me and millions of other people I'm sure.

@HJWT I know this of course can happen. I think my main issue is I don't want to "create" more problems. I do still know that the child could have the same issues or different issues anyway. My brother has autism and global developmental delay and my cousin has autism too. She can at least have a proper conversation though. Do you know how reliable genetic testing is? I don't know why but I never thought that they would be able to test for things other than chromosomal abnormalities for conditions such as down syndrome.

@Tobythecat That's an interesting take on it. I can maybe see why they are a bit defensive about it. I know a lady who has schizophrenia who had a baby boy about 12 or 13 years ago and is starting to show signs of the same condition. I would never say anything bad about her but I just couldn't do that. She has her condition mostly under control for now but you cant really predict how these things will play out for you or your children.

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HJWT · 06/12/2018 09:20

@HairdresserWithARubixCube I would
Defo look into it if I was you I think they can test for a lot now x

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 09:35

@HJWT Thanks I'll put it on the list and then we'll consider if it's an option for us. So far there's Genetic testing, Egg adoption and Adoption.

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HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 10:29

@HJWT From the research I've done it seems they generally can only screen for chromosomal abnormalities like I thought. For anything else its unreliable. Not going to risk it. It's back to Adoption and Egg donation.

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piscis · 06/12/2018 11:04

I understand your concerns, but how can you be so sure that Adoption or egg donation don't present the same problems?(specially adoption)

You have no certainty that the woman donating the eggs is mentally well, I think they do some "checks", but they are very simple and it is not like a blood test where you see a crystal clear result. Unless someone is very mentally unstable it is not so difficult to pass those tests to be honest. I would be more concerned about that than passing my own genes unless I was really really mentally unwell.

Branleuse · 06/12/2018 11:14

i can see why you dont want biological children, although i think you might underestimate which of those things are due to circumstance, trauma or reactions to your life experiences, rather than genetics.

I also think youd be unlikely to be assessed as a suitable adoptive parent with that history, plus any child you were placed with if you did pass the intensive background suitability checks, would likely have more issues than you do.
Have you ever been assessed for aspergers btw. A lot of the things you say, such as BDD, OCD, anxiety, - have you looked up how aspergers presents in women.

chillpizza · 06/12/2018 11:15

I think it’s the most unselfish thing op. Your thinking ahead to your child and the conditions they could inherit rather than your want/need to have a child.

More people should really think before having children if they have a list of inheritable illnesses.

brilliotic · 06/12/2018 11:19

I understand your thinking, parenting a child with health issues (mental and/or physical) is tough, but it is just one of the possibilities we sign up for when we have children (be they bio or adopted). Bringing a child who is likely to have such issues into the world is a completely different consideration.

I would say that the 'risk' that your child will have issues of one kind or another is highest if you adopt. If you conceive a bio child, yes there are chances that you pass on genetic susceptibilities, but conception is a real mix up of the genes, so equally chances are your child would not have any bad genes. Also, your birth child may inherit genetic dispositions e.g. towards depression, but never have those dispositions triggered.
Whereas for the child you adopt, it is not really a matter of 'if', but only of 'how much'.

So choosing to create your family by adoption is the path that is more likely to lead to 'special' parenting. I think it is important to understand that. But I get that your point is about bringing someone with issues into the world, vs a child that is already there.

I would also like to point out that some part of family transmission of things e.g. depression is not about genes. If the primary care giver is not emotionally available, because they are dealing with their own depression, the child is more likely to develop depression as well. Adopting a child does not insure you against passing on certain issues, you might just be passing them on by different means than by genes.

When talking to adoption agencies (and when considering things and doing your own research) I think it is important to consider if /how far your experience of your issues is a strength (you are aware, can recognise, know how to deal with/manage, don't stigmatize, can support, can empathise, have mechanisms of support set up for your bad times) and how much it remains a liability (adoption is emotionally draining, will it take more than you can give? Will you be able to remain emotionally available? What if an important period of your child's life falls into a 'bad time' of yours?)

Overall I feel your reasoning is ok. You want children, and are aware that whenever you have children, whichever way you go about it, there is a risk that they have or develop some sort of 'issue'; but you don't want to bring a child into the world who would suffer like you do.

There are lots of reasons why people adopt. They usually start with 'We want to have a child' but all the rest is highly individual. Why not go along to an adoption information evening and start finding out more?

But bear in mind that many people who want to have a child don't get there by their first choice of 'means' (and sometimes not at all). Many would like to have a birth child but can't, and turn to adoption as second or third choice after exhausting other possibilities. Some (a minority) would like to adopt, but can't, and turn to conceiving a birth child as second or third choice. Just remember that there are factors at play outside of your control.

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 11:20

@piscis I know of course you can't be sure, I've said that several times. Everyone in my family has at least one of these problems. I would feel better knowing that I did everything in my power to make sure that my children has a better upbringing and that I did my best to make sure they were happy and healthy. It doesn't mean I would love them any less. You can never be sure that a child won't have these issues anyway, but there is a very good chance that my children will. Again, it doesn't mean I would love them any less, but I want to give them the best odds because I do want children and I want them to be happy and have the best life possible.

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Thesnobbymiddleclassone · 06/12/2018 11:31

I actually think you're being really thoughtful, caring and mature about it.

There are lots of people with life threatening issues which can easily be passed to children who have biological children and you just wonder why they would put them through that.

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 11:52

@Branleuse well those are all valid points. I do remember when I was younger and being assessed though that they said I likely had a predisposition towards depression and anxiety (issues that affect the levels of serotonin in the brain, like a lot of these kinds of conditions do). I've had OCD since I was a little girl though. Everything else was 'triggered' in some way. I actually do have Aspergers. Very mild though. That was diagnosed quite a bit later because it wasn't very apparent. My little brother has fairly bad autism, he can't really speak very well but that may be the GDD too. That's interesting that you brought that up actually because apart from my psychiatrist nobody has ever noticed it. Even my current doctor questioned the diagnosis.

@chillpizza Thank you. I agree. All you can really do is weigh the pros and cons of all your options and come to a decision that right for you in the end right?

@brilliotic I do understand that yes. I don't believe it will at all be a walk in the park! For me, my conditions were predisposed (well most of them, some weren't), and something triggered them later on. I was actually in foster care for a while when I was 7 before I lived with my social worker aunt for a while before going back to my mum. My little brother is actually still in foster care and he's 24. My temporary carer was horrible. She only did it for the money and she hated me. My brothers foster parents however are wonderful. It was hard for my mum but ultimately she understands that its what's best for him. My really struggled for a while after my dad died, and she did one stupid thing, but ultimately she did the best she could and I don't resent her for it. I would never treat a child like my foster carer did. I think you understand my reasoning though so thank you for that.

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Branleuse · 06/12/2018 12:10

Ahh thats cool. Im aspie too and so are my kids. They were all diagnosed before me though, so i didnt have them knowing i would pass it on.

Not trying to encourage anyone to have kids, as obviously we have more than enough kids in the world already, but if you did want them, and you had the right support network, i wouldnt say your issues should put you off. If anything you might be the ideal person who understands any issues more than someone who goes into it blind. My kids are all aspie/autistic and they are fabulous and interesting and the world is a better place for having them in it, despite any challenges.
If an autistic child is brought up with people that get them and push for them and accept them, that can have a very different turn out from an autistic person diagnosed as an adult after a traumatic life. Some of the most incredible people i know are either autistic or have battled with their mental health.

MamaDane · 06/12/2018 12:19

Hello there!

I empathize with your reasons as I also have a MH problems. I have several diagnoses, one of which is Bipolar II disorder, which can be hereditary, so I've had the same thoughts as well. My partner and I have decided to have one child of my DNA and the rest with hers. I would go straight to IVF and just use her eggs and none of mine but atm we cannot afford it and it is also not legal in Denmark yet. And she has no interest in pregnancy while I very much want to be pregnant.

Because of my MH issues we wouldn't be allowed to adopt. It would also be super hard because of the gay aspect.

But I applaud you for doing it. I think it's awesome that you're going this route instead. And yanbu at all. In the fact just the opposite.

Wish you all the best of luck in your family planning process Smile

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 12:56

@Branleuse Oh that's interesting! I do agree actually. Me potentially passing on Aspergers or more severe autism wasn't really the issue. Both my brother and my cousin who have it worse than me in that regard, are lovely, happy and interesting people. I used to be obsessed with my cousin actually. I do think there are several 'perks' to having ASD. When we're interested in something, we have a damn near photographic memory. We get really invested in stuff we are interested in. Some people say that people with autism don't feel emotions, but that is absolute nonsense. The people that I've personally met are some of the kindest, most caring people I've ever met. There are far worse qualities I could have in my child. I like to think that since going through all this that I'm more sensitive to people who are going through the same thing, like depression, anxiety etc. I just fear that they'll handle it like I handled mine, which I don't think was very well at all. Doesn't mean they would however. We're still going through all of our options. Your kids sound lovely!

@MamaDane Thank you! That's very sweet of you to say. Is being in a same sex relationship really an issue for adopting over there? That's ridiculous I'm sorry. I would also love to experience pregnancy too. It's not a dealbreaker or anything but it would be nice. I wish you and your partner the best of luck too Flowers

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MamaDane · 06/12/2018 13:34

@Hairdresser
It's more an issue because most countries don't allow gay couples to adopt. So gay people can only adopt from South Africa and locally, i.e. Denmark. The problem is that there are not a whole not of kids up for adoption in Denmark (which is of course a good thing, it's better there aren't many orphans) and waiting for a child from SA would take many years, if it even happens.

Another issue is price, it would cost 250K Danish kr to half a million Danish kr, which is around £30-60K. It is also so difficult to adopt that being a bit overweight e.g. can also disqualify you. 60% of applicants (no matter gay or straight) are not accepted in fact.

So you can imagine a person with MH problems wouldn't even be considered and if we were accepted it would be almost impossible to get a child or take many years.

It always bothers me when people tell gays to "just adopt", when it is in fact the hardest way to get kids.

Sorry for the rant. Grin

Flowers I hope it's a lot easier to adopt in the UK for you and your DP. But if you really want to be pregnant as well as adopt, you could always adopt a child and then later use egg donation. I think it's cheaper to use egg donation, at least here. But I don't know if it's an issue for you and DP.

HairdresserWithARubixCube · 06/12/2018 13:57

@MamaDane Wow that sucks. In all honesty I don't know a lot about Denmark in general but I do agree that adoption can be a bitch. It's by no means easy to adopt over here (Scotland) but it is a lot easier than Denmark, evidently. Being gay isn't an issue over here when going through the adoption process. Single parents are also ok. The only issue I think has to be your age. If you're over the age of 39 then it's unlikely you can adopt a 0-2 year old child. Compared to the adoption process in Denmark, I'd say Scotland is pretty laid back.

If you adopt from the UK, legally you're not allowed to pay to adopt unless you're planning to adopt from overseas. It depends on how severe your health issues are but that doesn't necessarily write you off if you're fit enough to look after a child. Couples who are adopting a child together though have to have lived together for at least 2 years. Still not easy for a lot of couples though. I know a few people who have went down the foster care route and then adopted the children later.

I think adoption and then later egg adoption may be the route we go down. Or the other way round. The best of luck to you and your partner Flowers

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