Christmas arrangements

[PadawanCat]

Back in the summer, DH’s ex wife decided to book a holiday for her, her BF and my DSC over the Christmas break. Didn’t tell my DH - let alone ask. They have joint custody. We found out from the children after it had been booked. We let it go because we thought they wanted to go, but they are now saying they don’t want to go and their mum forced them to say yes.
Neither child likes their mum’s BF (so as not to drip feed, he’s controlling, and has isolated her from her family and friends. He’s awful to the children - belittles them, etc.)
The children have told their mum that they want to stay here, but she said that they couldn’t cancel as it’s all paid for and they’d be costing her a fortune if they didn’t go (flights, hotel, etc).
Both children are now upset - both at having to go on the holiday, but also missing out on family Christmas with us and their wider family.
We have no idea what to do. Nobody deserves a miserable Christmas, but I think we’re all going to have one.
Children are in their early teens.
Is there anyway we can help the children here?

Only thing that seems possible is to do something special with them either before or after Christmas - how long will they be away for?
Special meal - not necessarily a Christmas roast, maybe go out somewhere that they really enjoy, plus some other sort of treat that they enjoy - Go Ape, Indoor ski slope, indoor waterpark or wherever.

Maybe have a 'present opening gathering' with them before Christmas, invite their cousins/grandparents/other relatives that they enjoy seeing and have nibbles/mince pies/pizza etc? Plus send a couple of small presents and a nice card with them on the holiday for them to open on Christmas Day itself. Also arrange to skype/facetime while they are away if possible.

Plus return the favour by taking them on a great summer holiday without consulting their DM?

If the children are teenagers it’s really up to them. Let them know you’ll support them either way. If they go on hols with their DM, you’ll do something nice and Christmassy before they go. If they stay with you, they’ll have a family Christmas. Tell their DM that you and your DH are staying out of it and letting the children decide.

If the children are in their teens I don't think they can be forced to go.

We already have plans to do an early Christmas with them. It’s not ideal, but we put that in place as soon as we found out they would be away.
The real problem is that they really don’t want to go. Their mum is saying that they have to go as this holiday has cost her so much money that she’d lose if they didn’t go. I don’t know how to counsel them on this. It will be a miserable holiday for them all if they do go, if they don’t, I think it will exacerbate things at their mum’s.

They're teens, anything they're forced to do against their will that doesn't have a reasonable purpose will backfire. If not this battle another battle.
Personally I would support their rebellion but I'm a rebellious type these days.

How old are they? Thirteen is different to sixteen, right?
Also he's controlling? That's a worry. This is not just about xmas then?

They’re 13 and 15.
Their mum’s family will have nothing to do with the BF - he has humiliated them, the children, their mum, deliberately and publicly on multiple occasions. The way he speaks to her and the children is atrocious.
The children do stand up for themselves with him, but they are obviously concerned for their mum. It’s a horrible situation.

God, that is horrible. Can you access them some professional support/counseling? This really is about much more than xmas.

How long have mum and BF been together? Has anyone checked whether he has a history of DV?

I think Christmas is the least of your worries here.

Those two kids are growing up in an a bad environment, sounds like they need to be taken out of it.

I'm not sure what the legalities are but they cannot force the 15 year old, surely? And if the 15 yr old digs their heel in they have less chance of taking the younger one?
If this was just kids being awkward or petulant or moany it would be a different matter. But it's not.

The mum won't lose anything financially if it's paid for, she can still go on him without her DC.

If they are 13 and 15 I'd be supporting them in not going to be honest. Sounds like a horrible environment to grow up in.

Onalongsabbatical can we check this anywhere? As far as I’m aware, there has been no physical violence, but I do believe he exerts coercive control over her. .
The kids are worried, I think, that if they don’t go, the money becomes an issue for their mum and the BF. They both live beyond their means and he thinks my DSC are ungrateful. They’re lucky their mum puts a roof over their heads, according to him. They both think my DH should pay for everything, not just his share - DH gives a lot more than the CSA minimum.
If there would be no repercussions I’d encourage them not to go, but the fallout worries me.

It's an ongoing problem, don't pick a fight over Christmas. I would have the best time you can with them before and/or after Christmas and encourage them to go. They can make their own decision with their mum. Don't get in the middle of it, just do the best you can on your time without putting the kids under pressure or encouraging them to play off one parent against the other.

OliviaBenson theyre going to the US. As I understand it, flights, additional hotel room, theme parks etc have already been paid for, so they would lose this money.

It's more if they don't go, they've paid for something that hasn't been used, rather than directly 'losing money'.

OK exW and BF can still go on holiday without the DCs, but the cost of the holiday they have (2 people, could have gone in term time when much cheaper) will be far less than the holiday they've paid for - family holiday at an expensive time of year).

Is the situation so bad that you and DH would go as far as applying for the DCs to live with you full time? Is that an option for you? Although I suppose their DM is likely to not allow it.

Don’t get in the middle of this. If you do then expect them to use the same method to get out of spending time with you too. Also who’s word do you have about the step dad’s personality — is it just the kids? Are you sure they aren’t saying the same stuff about you to them? Teens will do or say anything to get what they want!

Clare's law. www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/daa/domestic-abuse/clares-law/

So everyone's tiptoeing round this man. Might be worth getting advice from Women's Aid, too, they'll have a conversation with you.
I'm not an expert in any of this by the way, but your posts are worrying me, he really does sound like trouble unfolding.

Cherries101 not just the kids’ word. Their mum’s family and friends say the same. He’s isolated her from them now too. The way we have heard him speak and seem him behave. I’ve seen text messages that are extremely upsetting.

BarbaraofSeville their mum would absolutely oppose it. He doesn’t live with them, and we try to arrange so that they aren’t there when he is, as much as possible, but they are obviously worried about their mum.
If they wanted, we would absolutely have them live with us all the time.

This is tricky because you don’t know really what goes on, and their Mum is still joint custody and therefore has the kids, parents them, and is entitled to Christmas with them as you are.

Separate out the issues. If you feel there’s a problem with the boyfriend, then your DP needs a frank talk with his Ex with specific examples. He then needs to support the kids to know what is and isn’t okay. Perhaps get some help from an outside source on this.

Christmas should be clear shouldn’t it in advance who’s having the kids? Alternate years is normal. And then you can’t really be insisting on no Christmases with their mum, as you will be encouraging the kids to dictate who they see and when. They can have more say but this is a very tricky path. Who’s to say they won’t not come to you if for example they get into drinking too much and you are stricter but their Mum lets them? I’ve seen this happen.

We have the same routine for Christmas each year. Or have done. This is the first year in 10 that this will vary.
I think we will need to address these issues in the new year, once Christmas is out of the way. The children are very torn.
We will back them up whatever they want to do over Christmas. But there are underlying issues with the set up at their mum’s that do need to be addressed. My DH talks with his ex-wife’s parents about the situation as they have strong concerns too.

Sounds like those underlying issues are more important, be careful it doesn’t become all about Christmas as ultimately the biggest changes could come from the kids mother

• those kids are going to have to navigate a relationship with her, and her bf, for possibly a very long time. If your DP can keep a positive line of open communication with his Ex this might make a big difference. If not, then working with the kids on long term well being and how they protect themselves if they are becoming adults is key too. It’s not really about refusing holidays, it’s how they keep up a good relationship with their Mum, are not damaged by her bf, and to have good parenting from both into adulthood.

Thanks Bananas, that’s really great advice.
Christmas has brought it all to a bit of a head - maybe we were sticking our heads in the sand a bit beforehand.
If we can get throgh the next few weeks, we can help the children with the underlying issues beyond.