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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

... school not authorising absence- WWYD?

140 replies

Llanali · 03/12/2018 16:44

Just had a letter to say the school will not authorise absence for DD (reception class) for the week before half term in February. This is after the school office advised we would get permission as she’s only in reception.

We tried to go away last year before she started school, to see DD grandparent in Aus but I had a second trimester miscarriage so we had to cancel the trip as I wasn’t allowed to fly following haemorrhage and surgery. This grandparent is the only living one she has.

We can’t go over Christmas as my husband cannot get leave. We can’t go over Easter as he can’t get leave and I can’t have holidays over the summer.

Any ideas? What would you do here? I’m really disappointed they wouldn’t grant us 5 days.

School is threatening prosecution if we take her anyway.

OP posts:
BlueJava · 03/12/2018 17:29

Sorry, this isn't helpful at all to your situation, but I really wish school would be clear about this sort of thing! My DS had a music exam which was in school time, they sent a letter saying the absence wasn't authorised, but then in the final paragraph say "I wish your son well in his exam". Bonkers situation!

MerryMarigold · 03/12/2018 17:30

I doubt you'll get a fine. I never have.

Jimdandy · 03/12/2018 17:32

She does not legally have to be in school until the term AFTER her 5th birthday so if it’s still before that ignore the school then in they attempt to send you a “fine” just write and explain the above.

The term “fine” gets thrown around, but it is, in fact, incorrect.

They send you a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) to discharge your liability for the offence by paying a fixed amount within a specified timescale. You do not have to pay an FPN if you don’t want to. The alternative is to either let the time elapse and their legal team will usually refer it to the Court for summons and prosecution or request a hearing in writing.

Only a Court can issue a “fine.”

Auntpetunia2015 · 03/12/2018 17:34

Sorry missed some of your replies. Prosecute means a fine in the first instance they only prosecute serial poor attendance parents. And even then it’s go to be below 40% (in my LA). Just factor the fine into your costs for the trip.

giggly · 03/12/2018 17:34

Move to Scotland Wink we dont have the ridiculous fine system.

YourMilkshakeIsBetterThanMine · 03/12/2018 17:35

Attendance is good except five days off sick since September

That's quite a lot actually. It can't be helped - mine is off right now - but it means her attendance must be around 90%? The school won't class that as "good". I'd try to get her to school as much as possible between now and Feb as if the holiday takes her below 85% they'll be harsher on you.

Regardless, you'll probably just get a fine. Around here it's £120 for a week (assuming 2 parents).

TheBigBangRocks · 03/12/2018 17:41

Five days off is already a lot so adding another five will mean the percentage may fall under the radar of the EWO so as well as a fine they will be involved as the amount of educational time missed will be a lot.

Quartz2208 · 03/12/2018 17:42

I think that you are escalating - the school will say (rightly by law) no. It will go down as unauthorised. This will then prompt the fine letter which if paid is the end. If it isnt that is when it can escalate

Also if you do drop (DS has) you will get a letter from the school and the Education Welfare Officer. It dropped another term and now if he has time off he need a doctor notes or it goes down as unauthorised. Then too much and will have a meeting with the EWO. (For us this isnt an issue he has just been diagnosed with recurrent chronic tonsilities so will be signed off

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 03/12/2018 17:45

To be fair, 5 days off since September means she’s already at around 91% attendance, and another 5 days by Feb half term will have her at 90%. That’s fairly low. Anything below 95% usually means some action, maybe a letter, but in reality anything below 85% is usually the cause for concern point when the EOW gets involved.

They can’t authorise it and they probably will fine you but it’s no big deal. She’s in reception, not just about to do GCSEs or even SATS. Just go.

claraschu · 03/12/2018 17:45

If the school is not oversubscribed, you can also withdraw her and then re-register.

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 03/12/2018 17:46

Cross posted with a few of you while I found my calculator! Blush

Aragog · 03/12/2018 17:46

At most it will be a fine for the week.
Our LEA fines on day 5.

The 5 days sickness, at this point in the year, will seem like a lot in terms of %. It will hopefully reduce obviously as the year goes on.

At the moment your DC's attendance will be at just 92% or similar, which is below the target for pretty much all schools. Hence the school's concern about another missing week. If she had no more time off by the end of the year - 5 days sickness would bring it to just over 97%. 10 days absence (sickness plus holiday) will bring it back down to 92%.

The DfE attendance target for Schools and Local Authorities is 96% - so you'd be significant below this.

However, its your choice. Even at 92% you'd just be looking at a fine, and perhaps a letter of concern from the LEA. You'd not be looking at prosecution in the courts at this stage; well certainly not in our LEA anyway.

Aragog · 03/12/2018 17:51

This is our LEA's policy on the penalty/fine:

Fines of £120 per parent/carer reduced to £60 if paid within 21 days may be issued where unauthorised leave has been taken during term time....

.... for holidays of 5 consecutive school days or over

Tistheseason17 · 03/12/2018 17:52

Go and enjoy your holiday - we do, and we haven't been prosecuted or fined. It's to stop those parents who take the p*ss. You know the ones, ALWAYS adding days to every half term or break.

Aragog · 03/12/2018 17:52

FWIW I'd still just take her and pay the fine.
But try to ensure there is no other missed time, unless it is essential.

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 03/12/2018 17:55

10 days in a whole school year of 190 days is just under 95% with no more days off at all, all year, so below most school’s target.

10PollyPockets · 03/12/2018 17:56

Oh god don't withdraw her and re-register her! A mid year application is not easy and they could easily fill her space and she will end up with no school place.
Honestly prosecution just means fine, the court stuff is if you don't pay it. They word it strongly as they don't want parents to take their kids out. I'd say most parents at dds school take term time holidays, even with 120 fine it's so much cheaper.

DobbinsVeil · 03/12/2018 17:58

As PP have said the worst that's likely to happen is you'll both be issued with a fine.

A family locally to me decided not to pay the fine and challenged at magistrates. They lost, got a bigger fine and found guilty of failure to ensure school attendance. No prison, was a conditional discharge.

danni0509 · 03/12/2018 18:05

@TheBigBangRocks would the 5 days off since September be unauthorised absence tho if op's dd had been in hospital due to ear infection?

Is illness counted as unauthorised?

MamaVV · 03/12/2018 18:06

@ Llanali
When is your Dd’s Birthday?

danni0509 · 03/12/2018 18:10

Sorry to gatecrash. I'm clueless about the absence thing and whether it's authorised or unauthorised as my ds only started reception in September,

he's had 2 weeks off for an operation and also a weeks holiday since September. He needs a couple more single days off after Xmas for hospital appointments, didn't realise his 2 weeks for his operation would of counted for attendance %

god only knows what his attendance will be then Hmm

He isn't 5 yet though if it makes a difference.

Sowhatifidosnore · 03/12/2018 18:15

They aren’t going to prosecute. She’s 5 for Fs sake! We took out 5 year old out of school for a week to see her ill grandfather overseas and got fined. And got sent THE most patronising letter about how we were risking our FIVE year olds chance of being in Higher Edication by taking her out for a week to see her grandfather before he died. Twats.

MamaVV · 03/12/2018 18:16

Danni > yes, it does make a difference. You can only be fined for unauthorised absence in the term after your child turns five. So if they are autumn born then compulsory attendance only starts in Jan. Make sense?

Hospital appointments would usually be authorised so not in the same category as holidays.

Original poster
Llanali · 03/12/2018 18:19

@MamaVV October, so she’s definitely of compulsory school age by February. As the term after starts in Jan etc.

I understand what everyone is saying that they can “only” fine- or Fixed Penalty Notice we should say- but the council themselves and the gov website state they don’t have to FPN first, they could just prosecute.

I’m terrified of that- court proceedings would jeopardize my job.

I didn’t realise a week of sickness would be counted an unauthorized? How could she have gone to school with a 104.2 temp, antibiotics etc etc and daily contact with healthcare professionals?

OP posts:
Original poster
Llanali · 03/12/2018 18:20

Plus that sickness is this term..,, so not the term after she turned five. So that wouldn’t count right?

OP posts:
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