Am I a wicked stepmother?

[Returning2thesceneofthecrime]

New name because I deactivated my old account after the Emma Healey incident and tried to stop wasting so much time on here....to no avail.

Ultimately, I will support whatever my DH decides on this issue but would love to know what other people think or would do in the situation because I am not quite sure where the line should be drawn.

DSD is 31 and has 3 kids and split from her husband about 18 months ago. There were on/off for about 2 years before that and there was another woman involved. She is still in a whole world of hurt. She hasn’t got a job, she has said she is looking, she is going to start a uni-level course part time at the end of January/beginning February. I’m certain she is depressed but think she has only been given medication by her GP rather than CBT or talking therapy. She is struggling to keep things together. The STBX is behind on child maintenance. He doesn’t seem to be in any hurry to get divorced and she says she can’t afford a lawyer and won’t get legal aid.

She asks for money from both her parents on a regular basis. We have just found out she is also asking her two brothers for money as well. She is getting at least 300 quid a month from family in addition to benefits, usually more (500 from my DH alone in October). My DH has taken her and the kids on holiday this year and spent at least 3k on other things for her so far this year. She asked for 500 in the summer and then bought a 350 cat (who is kept inside and hasn’t been vaccinated or spayed yet). She is planning a cruise next year to celebrate a friend’s birthday and we are due to babysit for that week. She paid the deposit, I am not sure how she plans to pay the balance. Despite not working, she has two of the children in childcare two days a week. This is subsidized but she still has to pay quite a bit for it and is behind on payments by two weeks. The nursery is ‘threatening to kick the kids out’ apparently’. She goes to the gym regularly and won’t compromise on that or childcare as it helps her mental health (and I do think she is depressed).

DH and I were planning to visit her and her brothers before Christmas but she has asked if we can cancel the trip and give her the money instead. DH was stunned and said no - he does have two other kids who are definitely noticing the disparity in the way they are treated. She wants the money to pay her electricity bill before she is cut off.

DH is thinking about saying no and let her be cut off. However, he may offer to pay her legal bills for her instead. Ultimately, I will support his decision but I do have quite strong feelings about this. At the same time, I wonder if I would do things differently if she were my biological child (don’t think so but who knows).

Is that reasonable in your view? How much would you give your children if they needed it? Are there any circumstances you would say enough is enough? Is there a line? Where would you draw it?

You're right in that ultimately your DH has to be comfortable with the decision (and I say that as a SM) but my gut reaction is that I wouldn't be giving her any more money until she gets some budgeting advice and get a her priorities straight. Asking for money because your electricity is about to be cut off but affording a gym membership, 2 days of nursery, a cruise and a ridiculously expensive cat is a joke. She is either lying about needing basics to guilt money from your DH or she has a very childish view of money. It also sounds like rather than contacting CMS about her STBXH she is seeking money from family. I would be telling her to stop asking her brothers to (on the presumption their uncomfortable with it), get rid of the cat, cancel the cruise and make an affordable budget before you step in with handouts.

I agree with the PP, to keep giving money isn’t going to help in the long run. Things like the gym could be substituted for running if exercise is beneficial, and the cat and cruise is just ridiculous! One option is to maybe pay the bill directly to ensure the money is going on that, but that is also a slippery slope as she might expect it all the time. It is reasonable to help, but not if she is reckless with money and with some budgeting could be affording all of the essentials. Not saying she shouldn’t have anything btw, but you can get cats for a load less and could do a family caravan holiday or something for less than a cruise. You have to draw the line somewhere or she will never change.

All the family need to stop the hand outs especially her brothers. It is time for DSD to grow up and take responsibility for her own life.

Btw if they are in the UK and not in Scotland then as it isn't 2 years this is probably why they aren't divorced unless she takes the initiative to do him for unreasonable behaviour.

The asking for money as opposed to seeing her family would be a final straw for me - especially given the other extravagances. If I was your DH I'd be getting all.members of the family together to look at the finances - sort of a financial intervention - but also so she knew she had to stop playing them all off each other.
I understand she may be depressed but this isn't going to end, so unless her family can keep this going indefinitely (ie for potentially several more decades!) then I think it needs addressing sooner than later.
And no you're not being unreasonable - and I've got a genuinely wicked stepmother so my default is to.assume the worse!

I think that before anyone gives her any more money she needs to do a full expenditure budget. Hand-outs are not helping her address the problem and never will until she makes changes. She is a grown woman, ffs!

At 30yo, and a mother herself, she needs to stop relying on other people to bail her out, get some budgeting advice from CAB and think about her priorities. She doesn't need to belong to an expensive gym to keep fit, she can do the same thing far more cheaply at a local municipal Pool and Gym on PAYG.

YANBU in questioning her behaviour and it sounds like your DH is getting to the end of his tether, which is to the good because the more he bails her out, the less likely she is to have a reality check and start standing on her own two feet.

And I say that as a single mum (of 18 years) who lived exclusively on government benefits (quite well) for the younger years. I also had severe depression and other MH issues and never once asked anybody else for financial help.

She needs to join the real world and live within her means, like the rest of us have to! Yes, I know, I am getting too narked on your family's behalf!

I think your attitude is judgemental rather than supportive, and for that reason, YABU.

People in this kind of situation often struggle, practically, financially, mentally and personally. People who are struggling often make mistakes.

Just filing out money isn’t necessarily the best way to be supportive. But focussing so much on flaws and mistakes isn’t being supportive at all.

I’m sure she’s done some things right too during this time. Perhaps consider those as well as the mistakes.

Also, try thinking of some actual positive ways in which you can be supportive, or your husband/other family members can be supportive. These can build on things she is headed in the right direction with and gently move her away from the things she is doing wrong. And ditch the criticism.

Pretty reprehensible to kick someone who is down with criticism and using that criticism to drive a wedge into other relationships. Might not be your intention but it could well be the result.

Thank you, ladies. Good to know I am not being too harsh. I have tried to leave this to my DH and his Ex but it has been difficult.

We had a great chat with the Ex over dinner last night (we don’t see each other very often but get along quite well when we do). She and I agree but DH is wavering a little, I think. DSD is still his baby girl (at 31 and with kids of her own). I did say that they need to let the boys know what they decide since DSD has effectively roped them into the as well. I will leave the intervention to them. Not sure what form it will come in.

We have been asking her for months to draw up a budget (when we were more willing to help) but still no sign of it. I was the one that suggested paying her lawyer directly rather than giving her cash. I do think that will work best. And as someone pointed out, I am concerned that if we pay her utility bills directly, that will just free up ‘her’ money for the gym/childcare/cruises etc. I would love to sit down and help her with budgeting but don’t think we have the right relationship for that. I did briefly offer but haven’t pushed it. I think that needs to be with he parents or a debt counselor or something similar.

I have experienced this with a family member who was terrible at managing finances. Your DH has to ask for accurate incomings and outgoings to help with a budget. He needs to ask for bank and credit card statements rather than rely on DSD telling him the amounts involved then decide whether to give money or not.

It sounds like DSD hasn’t grown up and has relied on everyone else to keep paying for her. The best thing all the family can do for her right now is to tell her no more money she has to learn to live within her means. She needs to get a job and stop frittering money away on non essential things.

You are definitely not being a wicked stepmother, I’d have said no the first time she asked for a handout!

What are her housing costs? I think that’s crucial in understanding whether she has a budgeting issue or whether she is actually able to make ends meet. When my ex left me there was just no way I could pay the mortgage and meet bills on my part time wages and benefits (never got maintenance). Inevitably, my home was repossessed. If she is in a similar position it is perhaps not hard to see how buying something nice to cheer her up is getting in the way of the bigger picture. Also, was she left with debts in her name or joint names?

Kringlebells, you are right that I am judging her (silently). I am trying to be supportive of both her and my DH. And I don’t think it is my place to criticize her. She gets enough of that from her mum. Other than paying for her lawyer and babysitting, how do you think we can help her? As you said, filing out money isn’t the best way to be supportive.

Ohreally, DH did go to the bank with her to see if she could take on the mortgage herself (currently shared with STBX but she is the only one paying it). She would need a guarantor (DH) but because he is self employed and because of our own outgoings, it was doubtful that she/they would be approved.

Actually book her into see cms & a financial advisor to help her with budget, brush it off as 'hey I know your having a shit time, so I booked some things to help you get through it' then offer to go with her.

I know when my life was falling apart when my ex left I really struggled financially and had to be told what steps to take in order to get through that time:

Then she has a major issue on her hands in the form of house moving. Nightmare. The loss of my home was worse than my ex walking out, believe me. I would suggest a good look at income and outgoings in a nonjudgmental way might be useful. You can then see if she is genuinely short or just bad at budgeting. It can take time to come to terms with situations like this and to understand what to do for the best.

I would say avoid paying for legal advice until you understand where she’s at financially as her financial,position will need to form part of negotiations. If she is not really ready to face the legal stuff, you will be throwing money away. And she’s right, there is no legal aid for this unless she suffered domestic violence that’s documented.

It sounds like she needs to grow up. You don't go booking cruises when you have no job nor put your children into paid childcare to exercise. You can do that at home.

Your DH and family need to stop pandering to her and remind her she has three children so needs to find any job as quickly as possible and start providing.

Rather than endless handouts, can you and your DH take on something fixed like her energy bill and then give the same amount to her brothers if you do want to help but , understandably, want the amount to be limited so she can't keep asking for more. I say the energy bill to make sure her children have heating and hot water. Alternatively, do a food shop once a month for her with a strict price limit.

YANBU.

I think she needs to be told no a bit. If she can’t afford essential bills the council will offer support.

I would pay the legal fees so she can divorce. I would also make sure she is taking her waster ex down the cms route to make sure he pays.

I think she’ll be getting 15 hours free nursery a week so if she can’t afford more than that then tough titties. It’s not essential because she’s not working.

Your dh needs to stop handing out your family cash to a 31 year old who can find money for cats and cruises but not her electricity bill. Why would she bother to put the effort in to sorting her finances out? Her entire family is enabling this to continue. You all need to say no more money.

I don't know. She is clearly struggling and making choices that reflect her state of mind.

That said throwing lumps of cash at her problems won't solve them. How about you pay for the children's nursery fees direct? It keeps things stable for the DC at a time when things must seem very precarious to them.

the fact that the 3 of you agree and are trying to come up with workable solutions (such as solicitor fees) rather than just throw cash means you are not a wicked stepmother.

It is a difficult situation and I think working together and making sure all agree is important.

You need to get the balance between supporting her and enabling her and just giving cash is enabling a situation that is not helpful for anyone

Just a note to say electricity is never cut off these days.

They install a prepayment meter which forces the person to prioritise the electricity debt as the meter is set to collect the debt as well as provide electricity once the meter has credit put on it.

The support I would provide would be helping DSD to get her 30 minutes free with a solicitor to see where to go from there.

I wouldn't want to act as guarantor as she seems flighty with money leaving your Dh to cover her rent. This would not be a smart move on your behalf. She needs to manage her finances. First things first, child support from the soon to be ex.

Just to say she doesn't necessarily need a solicitor to divorce, it depends if there's anything contentious involved (ie will he oppose divorce, are there significant assets that they wouldn't agree on the split for, are there disputes over custody arrangements). If there isn't, you can file yourself and the general approach is that the cost is split (around £300 each).

You are right that it doesn’t really matter what expense you give her money for. Even if you pay her bills directly, you are indirectly paying for her frivolous expenses by freeing up ‘her money’.

You are behaving perfectly reasonably IMO, but it does indeed have to be something driven by her dad. Hopefully canceling the visit in exchange for money may be an eye opener here. I would suggest that they have a conversation about her finances- that she is old enough to stand on her own two feet and these bail outs can’t continue. He should sit with her to go through all her income and expenses (with documentary evidence of this) and refuse to give her any more money until she agrees. Then if it’s clear she can cover everything except say the gym and childcare, then it’s up to him whether he wants to assist in financing these for her mh. But with the cruises and the cat etc. she is definitely taking the p. It really isn’t doing her any favours to enable such chaotic decision making when she is responsible for children. Time for her to grow up.