To wonder why the DWP is opposing this case?

[Miscible]

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/27/women-launch-legal-challenge-irrational-discriminatory-universal-credit-system?fbclid=IwAR27b0dKGDeJ2GCHi7L4UxWii15Pi_hvuhT5mf2fL3cgvtrtOtzFob-1A8s

Basically it's a legal challenge to the rules on Universal Credit, particularly the one that means if someone is paid slightly early (e.g. because their normal payday falls on a weekend) UC is stopped. It seems to be that something as irrational as this is inherently indefensible, but they DWP has taken it to a hearing that is happening this week.

Nothing surprises me when it comes to UC.

It is a shit and dangerous system.

Why is it discriminatory? I can't see the link to a rigid system that might have a flaw and "discrimination". Is that just the way they're playing it?

"[one of the claimants] said “I invested £40,000 in higher education studies so that I could become an occupational therapist and it’s great that I’ve got my degree but I have had to put my career hopes on hold because of universal credit." also goes unexplained.

The Grauniad's a terrible read!

I read this and used to work for UC.

UC claimants have an assessment period. Income received in this period is deducted from the payout (according to a formula). Random dates changes for income can mean sometimes payments fall twice in one assessment period, and not at all in the next. Over 2 months, it all balances out; though I see the frustration and additional budgeting required. It's not like an entire payment is lost though.

It's discriminatory because it disproportionately affects lone parents, who as a group are primarily female. It falls under indirect discrimination.

AdamNichol, where someone has a fluctuating income there are cases where it doesn't even out. Even where it does, that's sod all help when you can't afford to pay your rent. Try telling your landlord you're not paying this month "but it'll even out next month" and you'll be well on your way to eviction.

There are so many issues with UC that need to be addressed, but because the DWP refuse to listen and act on the concerns, each has to be individually challenged through the courts. The money that the DWP puts into fighting these cases - and even more so, appeals against incorrect decisions - is ludicrous.

The money that the DWP puts into fighting these cases - and even more so, appeals against incorrect decisions - is ludicrous.

Well it's better than spending it on the claimants themselves, clearly ...

You didn't explain how, Bombadier, you made a baseless claim.

I understand that people claiming UC may have issues around money, literacy etc but "In one case, a family’s monthly payment swung from £1,185 to zero, making budgeting impossible." doesn't seem true to me. These people know their average / typical / annual 'income'. Just because the government gives them £1800 doesn't mean they need to spend it all and be broke a few weeks later.

It’s a ridiculous system. For the self employed, they can’t offset genuine business expenses from one month to the next. UC is supposed to reflect employment - it’s supposed to reflect the real world - it doesn’t. They can’t even reflect government processes. It’s a total shambles.

Why have a system that allegedly balances out over two months at all? How hard would it be to set it up so that it takes into account the reality of how employers actually work?

I wonder how keen MPs would be on a system where they might just not get paid one month but never mind, with any luck it will balance out the next?

In cases where the UC has been reduced to 0 because employment has paid twice in an assessment period, still means that employment paid out twice within that time frame. It's not like total income dropped to 0 for a whole month. In the following month, there'll be no income reported, so UC will max out.

To put it another way, in month 1 you were expecting wages and UC. You got wages twice. In the next month you get UC twice but no wages.

What about the work allowance? That doesn’t balance out does it?

And what happens if your wages are less than you receive in UC?

@AdamNichol, did you read the bit in the article about losing the work allowance in the subsequent month, because the UC system doesn't "see" any income in that assessment period?

These people know their average / typical / annual 'income'. Just because the government gives them £1800 doesn't mean they need to spend it all and be broke a few weeks later.

The fact that "these people" are on UC at all means they are skint and on the margins financially. There is no "slack" to take up.

Say someone's income is split 50/50 between wages and UC. They might pay their rent out of their wages, and that will be that money gone. They then use their UC to live on for the month. Or vice versa.

Then, one month pay day falls early because the usual day is a weekend or a bank holiday. They still have to pay their rent out of that wages payment, so that money's gone. Then the UC doesn't arrive, leaving them with no money for food, fares, fuel etc.

The following month, when they've probably run up an overdraft or borrowed from friends/family to feed their kids, UC thinks they haven't worked, because no wages have been paid in that "UC month", so their UC is less than it would normally be. And they have debts to pay or an overdraft to clear.

It's an absolute cock-up. The software should have been written in such a way that the claimant's pay period is recorded and, if the normal pay day is within a few days of the UC assessment date, treated as being paid on the normal pay day if/when that date falls on a Sat/Sun/BH.

I'd advise all UC claimants who are being paid early because of Christmas to check how this will affect their UC, because a lot of people will be affected and January is a long month.

I have heard that if you get paid twice in a month then your claim for UC is stopped and closed. Which means that you need to reclaim which can take a minimum of 6 weeks.

I get paid 4 weekly so if i had to claim UC i would have my claim for UC stopped and started so much.

Adam, I hope that one day you are dependant on this system you think works so well and so fairly :)

How hard would it be to set it up so that it takes into account the reality of how employers actually work?

Quite, although there are still some people who are paid weekly and fortnightly. I can't quite see how you'd shoehorn the 5-week or 3 fortnight month into the UC system.

And nothing's perfect. Look at all the complaints about tax credit overpayments, which mostly arise because the award is based on the claimant's guesstimate of how much they will earn.

Reboot, I've heard of that happening too, but it shouldn't.

One of the principles of UC is that the claim stays open for 6 months even if no payment is made, in case income drops again. I'll try and remember to look up the regulation when I'm back at work on Weds.