To think you shouldn’t leave job requirements to last minute?

[Elphie54]

At my job, every year you have to attend at least 4 continuing education meetings a year or face displinary action. I think they are very fair in how they offer them. They have 2 per month, one a morning session and one an evening session, on two different days of the week. They are also very lenient in what qualifies as attendance (basically as long as you are there at some point during the meeting and sign in, you are marked as present, even if late or leave early). Most of us manage to go to at least 6 to 8 a year if not more since they are actually beneficial and afterwards are used as forum to express any concern we have as employees. Every year, for the past 10 years, they have always had only one meeting in December as opposed to two because of the holidays.

Today at the meeting, they issued a reminder that there was only one meeting in December. My one coworker (who makes mountains out of mole hills anyway) is complaining because now he does not have enough meetings for the year. Apparently he was counting on there being 2 meetings in December. My sympathy was lost when he said he was already on notice because he only attended 3 last year, so not getting enough this year could mean dismissal.

AIBU to think, then maybe you shouldn’t have left it to last minute?

Will you miss him?

“Will you miss him?“
Honestly? No

Tell him not to let the door hit him in the arse on the way out. He had more than one chance to get it right.

He’s had 22 chances throughout the year? Well it’s his problem x

I don't know- I'm on the fence with this. At my workplace we have so many to training courses to do a year but we are not disciplined for non attendance. I find that some people find this easy to meet as they don't have very demanding roles or work whereas others are non stop, could this be the issue?

He’s had 22 chances goldenbear. If he can’t organise himself to show up 4 times in 22 then maybe he isn’t fit for the job.

Yanbu.

Doesn't sound like the most fun thing to do but you'd think someone already on a warning would have gone to the first 4 he could get to in the new year to get them ticked off and over with.

“I don't know- I'm on the fence with this. At my workplace we have so many to training courses to do a year but we are not disciplined for non attendance. I find that some people find this easy to meet as they don't have very demanding roles or work whereas others are non stop, could this be the issue?”

No. Even if it was, they allow you to “drop in” while on shift provided you keep your radio on low and respond if called.

I admit some aren’t very fun, although some of them have been absolutely amazing (new technology being put into place). We also know the topic beforehand so you can chose to go to the ones that you have an interest in.

I’m also a bit on the fence. All of my workplaces have had compulsory training but you are rostered to attend and aren’t expected to arrange it yourself. I started a job in June and was rostered for a weeks induction and two-days job-related training. If you can just turn up late, sign in and not stay for the whole session then what is the value of it anyway?

Your job sounds wank. If you have statutory training that needs doing make sure people have time to do it during the working day. These "continuing education" meetings sound like a waste of time and people shouldn't be forced to attend them.

His fault. If he gets fired, so be it. He deserves it, he was told what he needs to do for his job and has failed twice. He should have better organisation skills or at least have the common sense to know he needs to attend. He's lazy and he's getting the comeback for it. Wave him off happily I would.

These aren’t exactly training though.

When I first started, they tried the mandatory meetings every 3 months. They got the overnight people complaining that it was inconvenient and couldn’t attend etc. so by offering 2 a month, there should be no excuses.

He could have attended. He didn’t. He knew this was going to be a problem but did nothing. Tough.

There is no guarantee during working hours that you will have any down time, let alone a chance to be in a meeting. There are shifts where I struggle to even get a bathroom break.

From an employment perspective, plenty of notice should have been given about there only one date in December. If not, and if he has reasonable expectations that there would be two, the company would have a hard time if they tried to discipline him for it. I’m not saying whether it’s right or wrong. Just that’s what could happen.

In that case, I think it sounds unfair that they are compulsory. I used to deliver training to staff that worked shifts (inc overnight) and if they were attending my course on a Tuesday (for e.g.), they would be given the Monday off & Tuesday to attend said training then back in on Wednesday. I know where you’re coming from as I’ve worked shifts where I’ve had minimal “down time” but if my workplace want me to attend something then they give me that time. I have to attend a meeting in a couple of weeks and my manager has released me from my usual duties that day to attend.

I'm not a fan of compulsory training outside work time, frankly. Unpaid overtime encourages exploitation of the workers.

So I disagree with the principle of the choices, but I also agree your friend/colleague is an idiot.

Doesn't matter if you're not a fan of compulsory training, the point is it is this job requirement, he knew it, he was on a warning. No excuse.

The problem with giving time off for people to attend is that there would be no one to cover the shifts. That would be a huge problem.

A certain amount of these continuing education credits are also required for recertification (you have the option of continuing education courses or a challenge based refresher course which is a lot more time consuming). Those are not paid either since it is considered your responsibility for your certification nor are they run by the employer. So the fact that so many are offered a year is actually beneficial. I know other people in the same field who are offered none by their employer and they have to find their own.

Given it’s a requirement of the job and he’s not new then yes, he should have made time for it during the year. Most jobs have this kind of thing. Ours is staff meetings once a month where you’re only meant to miss three before it becomes an issue. Times are usually chosen to suit the group so nobody is missing it without a reason.

Wherever I have worked, "training" has formed part of my working day. Not some extra I am supposed to fit in for fun.

What job is this, and what training is it?

Four training sessions a year sounds quite a bit - is your sector particularly fast moving?

tuesday Well, indeed - hence why the friend is an idiot.

There's loads of crap I disliked about my previous job, it didn't mean I didn't do it. It also didn't mean it wasn't crap.

I understand what is being said saying about cover, and other employers being worse, but I work in a profession where expected, unpaid, overtime can run to 50-100% additional hours so I have a lot of feelings about it.

I certainly don't disagree that he's been stupid not to do it, and should have sucked it up and got on with it until he could take any action to formally change things though.

The problem with giving time off for people to attend is that there would be no one to cover the shifts. That would be a huge problem. so your employer expects people to be in two places at once? Yeah, no.

I find it weird that people want to bash my employer, when all the other employees have no problem with the requirement. Out of all the employees, he is the only one I know of who is being vocal about the displiary action he faces. Everyone else makes it work...

People are bashing your employer because your employer's got a fucking cheek. They are effectively freeloading off you by expecting you to comply with training requirements unpaid. If there wouldn't be enough of you to cover shifts while some are training, that means they should be employing more, not expecting you to pick up the slack.

I appreciate that unpaid overtime is more and more common and it's a race to the bottom, but that doesn't mean we should be blaming each other for not giving sufficient freebies to piss taking employers. That said, if you're in a well paid role where the expectation is that you do the job whenever needed and your salary reflects this, that would change things.