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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think mumsnetters have overreacted

156 replies

mother2b · 22/06/2007 12:04

i think that racism is worng and am very anti racism, but i also think that its things like over reacting to chinky when all the poor lady meant was to go for a chinese is what is making our world so overly PC, was a little thoughtless but wasnt meant to be racist.

i just think that its was completely blown out of all proportion!!!

OP posts:
MarshaBrady · 22/06/2007 13:35

i mean PC is now a term that is out of date, people tried to use it as a defence 'oh thats so over the top pc' about a decade ago.

MarshaBrady · 22/06/2007 13:36

And agree with boco, being called the n word proably is very much like being hit with an iron bar. To the person being called it, by a white person.

NKF · 22/06/2007 13:37

It's a horrible word. Just awful. And if being pc means objecting to it, then bring it on.

ahundredtimes · 22/06/2007 13:40

Racist language is racist because as Marsha says, it carries with it ignorance, insult and years of oppression and hostility. It's there in the bones of the word, which is why, unless we are chosing to be racist, we don't use those words any longer.

ahundredtimes · 22/06/2007 13:41

No Marsha I disagree. Being called the 'n' word is not like being hit by a iron bar, being hit by a iron bar is like being hit by a iron bar.

Iklboo · 22/06/2007 13:46

I would never dream of using words like that. DH & I were discussing today whether we wanted Chinese or Indian for tea.
I wonder if the person in the OP (not mother2b, whoever she was talking about I mean) was of a certain age?
Old people do still use racist words without meaning them in an overtly racist manner without thinking about it IYSWIM. Not excusable, they just do.
FIL still asks DH is "many of your pupils P*s"

MarshaBrady · 22/06/2007 13:47

Yes maybe, what i mean is a black person may well reel from the comment, and feel it as a blow to the stomach. Or the parent of a black child might. Im not sure i have had experience of either, but i wouldnt ask them not to be offended. Okay what im saying is being hurt verbally can hurt. Ok maybe not as much as full on physical blow to the head. damn ive been sidetracked

suzywong · 22/06/2007 13:47

"It's a slippery slope mother2b. Chinky food today, Chinky person tomorrow (the two are inextricably linked)"

says dejags

and she is right, and that is why my dh used to taken for a food delivery man in the street he'd lived in for 10 years. Chinky is offensive because it supports and contains the conception that Chinese people and Chinese Catering Business are one and the same. And yes it's not the most heinous misconception in the world but if it could be laid to rest then I for one would be happier.

And it's all about me, let's face it

Boco · 22/06/2007 13:48

So your beef with people being 'offended' all the time, is more about people who are offended by random comments or slight rudeness etc is it? Rather that people being offended by actual racism.

I actually think these discussions are important. It's about language, so many people don't realise how important the words they use are - people still talking about spastics and puffs and pakis without really thinking that they are being offensive. Those words change the way people are seen, and see themselves. It is important, and if someone is offended by being called something, then they should be able to express it, we should be able to take that on without the pc is boring / don't take yourself so seriously type arguments.

MarshaBrady · 22/06/2007 13:48

i mean i havent had experience of either so is hard to compare

MarshaBrady · 22/06/2007 13:50

and i need to get back on track. Language is so loaded that by using these words superiority / inferiority is being reinforced every time. Thats why we shouldnt use them anymore. Boring it may be but thats how it is.

louii · 22/06/2007 13:50

YAWN

ahundredtimes · 22/06/2007 13:52

Yes Boco of course I've been offended before, and of course I have stuck up and said what and why I've found it offensive and why I want it to stop. But I don't think I can legistlate the world around the things I find acceptable that's all, nor can anybody else. Say your piece and fight your corner, that's what it comes down to. And do it every time.

potoroo · 22/06/2007 13:52

DH is Chinese and has been on the receiving end of 'chinky' as an insult - so where we come from (Australia), it is an offensive term.

We've never heard it used to describe a Chinese takeaway where we live in the UK, but if it was a common term without racist connotations, then he wouldn't be offended - IYSWIM.

Its like suzywong said - in Australia the cricket teams are affectionally referred to as Aussies, Poms, Kiwsi, Windies (West Indies) and Pakis - Australian's just have a tendancy to shorten names. But on moving to the UK we found that Paki is an offensive term, and we would never dream of using it.

Like Happy Daddy said - common sense...

potoroo · 22/06/2007 13:56

suzywong - DH is one of about 5 Chinese people lving in our predominantly white town. He is often mistaken for working in the local Chinese takeaway. Certainly not a problem we faced in Sydney...

Must admit, I do like to confuse people by spelling my last name then explaining it is Chinese (I am as white as they come) - some people cannot get their heads around why I would have a Chinese surname. Hee hee.

ahundredtimes · 22/06/2007 13:57

I hadn't read your last post. I have now. I think we agree with each other really. My thing about being offended isn't really relevant here, it's a side issue to the central conversation about racism.

I personally don't think it's a great crime if somebody is offended. That's all and society at large has decided that it is.

mozhe · 22/06/2007 13:57

It is NOT overeacting for the nth time...it IS racist...listen to what the chinese man said to one of the other posters mum2be...
You cannot plead ignorance or lack of intent..if you do not believe it IS racist then by default that MAKES you racist.

suzywong · 22/06/2007 13:58

hello potoroo

I know EXACTLY what you mean on both counts (this is my real married name, I am as white as they come and all)

anniebear · 22/06/2007 14:02

I woud be really shocked if some one said to me they were going to the chinky

I am sure the OP on the other thread wasn't meaning to be racist, but she and the others who have agreed with her should now, after reading this realise that it is insulting and a word they should maybe not use from now on

Quattrocento · 22/06/2007 14:03

Oh YABU. To echo the words of just about every other poster.

Not that the majority is necessarily right of course. In fact quite often it's wrong although not of course in this case! (ironic).

Look at it in the historic context. Fifty years ago, it was quite common for white english people to refer to black people as sambo. Let's avoid the nigger analogy. Just think about the word sambo. Or golliwog (oh so affectionately shortened to wog).

Fast forward fifty years and say any of those words in the workplace. You'd be out on your ear in nanoseconds. Chinky is just the same.

And please don't give me that daily mail reading stuff about blackboards. That's just a ridiculous example used to justify insidiously racist terms like chinky.

Original poster
mother2b · 22/06/2007 14:04

i am certainly not racist but i think that peole overreact to a thoughtless slip of the tongue/finger, i just think that it wasnt meant in a racist way, and i hate racism, it is digusting, but can you imagine how bad the person who made the comment is feeling, awful, it was a mistake! i think it is completely OTT

OP posts:
Boco · 22/06/2007 14:05

I'm a bit confused about whether or not we're agreeing. I think being offended can be a really big deal in some cases - if it's constant and shapes your self esteem and self respect - as with racist or sexist or homophobic comments - then its a bid deal. It'd be hard to persuade someone dealing with those kind of insults that it wasn't a big deal.

People who freak out because of minor comments or people just not agreeing with them - well i agree that this is part of life and people need to deal with that and get overthemselves.

mozhe · 22/06/2007 14:07

Then they should apologise unreservedly.....that argument is bollocks !!!' I didn't mean to be racist....' You can be racist even if you don't intend to be...

ahundredtimes · 22/06/2007 14:11

Yes I see what you're saying Boco. NOBODY in this house is allowed to use racist or homophobic language, and I am absolutely NOT making excuses for anybody that does use them. (cf. v. pompous conversation with ds1 on the use of the word 'gay' which is a common term of insult by 9 yo who don't know what it means).

BUT is the fact that you have been offended grounds for anything? You see I think not, other than the fact that you have been insulted. Is being insulted a terrible thing? Yes, it's not very nice at all. Are you entitled to not be insulted? Not really.

Like the Islamic cartoon for instance. Yes, that's insulting. Should it have been produced? Yes, why not, someone drew the cartoon and wanted to have a pop at Islam. Was it a nice thing to do? No. Should it have been banned? No.

WigWamBam · 22/06/2007 14:13

You're not reading the thread properly, M2B. There are no end of reasons being given why the word is offensive, regardless of the intentions of the speaker. That poster may have been ignorant of the connotations of the word before she used it, but that doesn't mean she (and others) shouldn't be pulled up and be made aware of the origins (and the offensiveness) of the word.

Read the posts, be educated, and pass onto your children a better attitude towards racial language than was apparent in the past.