To ask how I can have a healthy debate with my Dad about this?

[WaterBird]

I'm a child of the mid 90's so still fairly young, and my parents are great, but I am terrible about any kind of debate/argument.
My dad believes that if you grew up in a home with lots of love and few money problems, then you should have little to no problems with mental health. His argument is that people in older generations (3 of my grandparents came from an Eastern European country) have had to deal with a lot worse, and have still come out very resilient.
I really can see where he is coming from, but I also want him to see that mental health is a very real thing in my (and probably his) generation. Basically, I just want to help him understand. I might be feeling a little sensitive about this because I'm working through a rough patch right now (I don't think he realises the extent of it, so I really don't think it's a matter of him being ignorant). The conversation had originally come up because of a psychology course I am taking.
What are your thoughts? Thanks.

Parents are not always going to come round to your way of thinking. They might also shift a little, but in a way that doesn't make enough difference to you.

As his yardstick seems to be people from the past, what about searching for material on psychological traumas of the WWII generation, and sending him something to read? especially about people who were not frontline troops. (More likely to be available in English about British people, assuming you don't speak your heritage language. If you do there will probably be some research about effects of the communist regime.) The people one hears about most of the time were the ones who coped okay, but there were also a lot of people who didn't, who never really recovered.

If the difference is whether or not to talk about something, sometimes people from generations or social circles where talking about it is very much the way to deal with things just aren't going to be able to see eye to eye with those who not only dealt with things by not talking about them, but strongly believe it's morally right not to talk about it. Then you have people who cope with humour and find earnestness annoying.

Textbooks can have heartwarming examples of people who learned to open up, and it can feel unfair and strange if we don't experience the same, so it's worth being prepared for in advance, that it's not inevitable he will.

Well lots of people did go horrendous things in the past and some gained great ‘resilience. An awful lot of people were very damaged by it, but less was spoken about that. There was also the fact that in some situations where a large group of people have experienced the same traumatic event in their shared past, the group becomes somewhat ‘self-supportive’.
MH is common these days, and increasingly spoke of, rather than hidden away, though we as a society still have a long way to go on this. Therefore people can feel lonely, isolated, and ashamed of their illness.
‘Count your blessings’ might be reasonable to say to yourself if you are having a bit of a miserable day, but is very unhelpful to someone who is ill.
Hope you are getting the appropriate care and treatment you need, Op.

Mental health issues are no new thing - my grandmother (born 1915) spent most of her adult life in and out of psychiatric wards. As far as I know she had a loving childhood etc.
But everyone covered it up, didn't talk about it etc and just as my great grandfather on the other side had 'shellshock' which was swept under the carpet it didn't mean it wasn't there, just that there was little to no help and a great deal of shame.

My dads in his 60’s, very unwell physical and I would say mentally, has been prescribed antidepressants in the past but won’t take them.

I’ve recently been diagnosed with bipolar, after 2 years of meds, assessments etc. I recently went through mania, very hyper, not sleeping, over spending, the list goes on.

I then had a load of abuse off my dad for not visiting. I explained what had been happening, how my psychiatrist had me on antipsychotics and how they where trying to keep me from being admitted to our local mental health hospital.

It feel on deaf ears. I may as well have told him I had a cold for all it was worth! I think to a certain extent it’s a generation thing. The younger generation are more aware of mental health and aren’t as ashamed to admit it. I don’t care who knows I have bipolar, it’s part of me, just as if I had diabetes or asthma. But I think a lot (I’m not saying all) of the older generation just ploughed through things, therefore they don’t understand how serious a mental health problem is.

I once pointed out to my dad all the older men we knew that had sadly taken their lives, and also unfortunately 2 of my younger male friends have in the last few years too. Yet he still didn’t seem to ‘get it’.

So I don’t have a solution as you can see, but I know how frustrated you feel. If you do find a solution, let me know!

Any debate will not be healthy. It will become an argument. It would need to be someone else to turn him around. His attitude is very common and usually from someone who has never felt the depths of depression and anxiety that can hit you for no apparent reason. In fact, people feel worse when they don't understand why they feel so bad. If he can't support you I think you need to talk to more understanding people

I wouldn’t start up a discussion, but over time point out instances of older people and mental health problems. Drinking was a very acceptable way to mask depression and institutions were set up specifically for the mentally ill etc.

Personally, I’d try to avoid having a debate about it. Structurally, debate is often about point scoring and so it’s not always conducive to increased understanding.

Instead, think about asking him to explain what he thinks to you in more depth so you can understand his viewpoint more. Listen with respect to what he says even if you don’t agree with it. Look for points of agreement, or where your views are complementary to one another. Build on points of genuine agreeement and use those as starting points to sharing your views. See where that ends up.

Thank you so much for your responses. They have given me things to think about. I agree that most of the older generation during WWII probably had problems, but hid them well.
Thanks for asking about me. I'm slowly getting better.
And Loubluee, I'm really sorry to hear that about your Dad. He shouldn't have treated you like that. Regardless of what he went through, that's not an excuse.

Just saw the last messages about not starting up a discussion. That makes a lot of sense.

WaterBird Thankyou. Luckily I have broad shoulders, and ironically have always worked in mental health lol so I’ve seen it happen so many times. But I would imagine that for individuals who are experiencing crisis, and are having to deal with relatives like, who aren’t so resilient (and that’s not a flaw!) it would only add to their problems.
Take care of yourself x

My dad was the same-

Many of his cousins were murdered in the holocaust: he could not conceive of how someone from a warm, loving home with no major loss, trauma, etc, could become suicidal. He just could not do it.

I learnt not to talk about it with him- I think over the years he might have softened/understood. Maybe.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Helmetbymidnight. I hope you are doing better now.

But in defence of that older way of thinking, health care professionals using different words will suggest you get on with life, discourage moping and wallowing.

Giftsonthebrain, thanks so much for sharing the opposite side (funnily enough, he is a health care professional).

I agree with not discussing certain things. I find a fair amount of people are incapable of understanding that, which they have never experienced. My mother once said she doesn’t believe in emotions. That’s how poor her understanding of others actually is.

Define 'older'. I'm in my early 50s, had depression, taken the prozac etc, but do agree that those born in the mid 90s (yes, I have one) seem to lack the resilience that those of us born in the mid 60s seem to have.

I suspect that socail media has a lot to do with it; the idealised images of life that are shown there are not real (to cynics like me anyway), and that the mid 90s kids have not been encouraged to fail in the same way we were.

Hi scaryteacher,
I suppose that by "older" I am mostly talking about my grandparents' generation, people who lived in the 1930s and 40s and experiencedwar.
Can I ask, in what ways do you believe that the children of the 90's have not been allowed to fail? I've heard this idea before, so I'm curious in what sense you define "failure?"

Oh it wasn’t me but someone we both love dearly.
My dad was incredibly open minded about most everything, but mental illness was one thing he couldn’t get his head around. I think maybe he would have changed but ran out of time.

Older in reference to ww2 survivors, therefore born circa 1920.

In my experience there is no changing views like this, and the only result is an argument and resentment on both sides!

In my family (on my mother's), mental health problems date back as far as my great grandfather (born nearly 150 years ago) to my knowledge, and probably further. It's definitely not a new thing!

I think mental health problems were massively hidden from my parents generation - people lied and covered it up all the time.
Depression has always been a huge thing- it just wasn’t discussed as it is now.

Example of failing to develop resilience; school art project looks like garbage, however the child is told how “wonderful and creative it is”, expecting this to carry on into the workplace, or family life (lousy pot luck attempts), “oh Lucy tried hard”.
Shopping for wants vs needs ie buying a blanket while taking outgrown clothing to the recycle. Older generations would turn scraps into quilts. Using baking Soda to brush teeth, making art glue from flour and water. Little things done daily to reinforce self sufficiency.

Is your father swayed by science? Trans generational trauma is a very real phenomenon and likely to be a mix of behavioural and inherited traits.

Have a look Here and see if it makes any sense. Reading briefly it looks as though the second generation (you) may be worse affected than first.

And accept that he may not be the best person to support you and it may be better for you to discuss your feelings with someone else. My own DF would have been 100% ‘look at all the people worse off than you.’