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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to presume she can pay back the money owed rather than go bankrupt?

192 replies

JemimaPyjamas · 26/11/2018 13:17

Semi posting for traffic, semi asking a genuine AIBU!

A friend I have known for ages, but have only started to see almost daily as she used to live on the other side of the country, is in a self inflicted financial mess.

Despite having an excellent career, she has taken out loans, bought from catalogues, bought new expensive items on HP, not paid utility bills etc etc and now is almost £20,000 in the red.

She has been asking me to help her get out of the mess she is now in (she confided this has happened, to varying degree's, most of her adult life.) So, we worked out her money together and she has just over £420 'spending' after covering her rent, bills, food etc. She now thinks this is 'only just enough' for things like nights out and trips to the hairdressers and isn't really much at all.

I said to her that I think this should go towards the money she owes, and then she said she is 'better off just going bankrupt as it'll take forever to pay off' and it'll mean she can start with a clean slate.

I have told her this is wrong, and I am also not entirely sure she could even do this by choice considering the options she has? (She also works part time, so could earn another £300ish after tax by working 5 days a week as opposed to 3.)

AIBU to presume that she would have to both work full time and pay back what she owes, and they would go through all her spending with a fine tooth comb?

I have been trying to look at answers to these specific questions but everything is a bit more general, or working on the basis that the person in the red has far less spare cash a month.

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:
MrsSquiggler · 26/11/2018 14:20

DRO & vehicles on HP - If you've got a vehicle you're paying for on a hire purchase (HP) or conditional sale agreement, it won't be counted as an asset. This is because it doesn't belong to you until you've made all the payments on the agreement. However, you may not be allowed to keep making the payments while the DRO is in force.

So it may be repossessed.

MrsSquiggler · 26/11/2018 14:21

But you also need have £50 or less left over each month after paying your normal household expenses, so I doubt she would qualify.

londonrach · 26/11/2018 14:23

Tell your friend if she goes bankrupt her employers might sack her. I work for the nhs (not gp) and its in my contact. Shes being vvvv silly.

M4J4 · 26/11/2018 14:25

I have never borrowed money in my adult life apart from a student loan and have zero debt but in her situation I would declare myself bankrupt.

My sister and my brother have done it and never got into debt again.

However, yes, she should consider impact on her job. It may be that it hasn't no impact but she should look at it.

SoaringSwallow · 26/11/2018 14:25

I'd write down the salient points from this thread (like getting struck off if she works for a trust) and either email it OR wait if she comes back to you. Other than that, so nothing more.

This is like an addiction and she needs to take responsibility. She's not. She's putting the grunt work on you. If she was taking responsibility she'd contact Step Change etc herself. She's already borrowed money from family and kind of offset the problem. She's not borrowing money from you, but she IS taking your time and energy. This is where she needs to step up. You can support her, but that's not the same as doing the leg work for her. Don't take her problem in, even emotionally. It will definitely end your friendship, because a) you can't solve this for her and b) you'll never do enough for her on this (because you can't solve it).

Stay near for support, but she needs to admit and take responsibility for this problem SHE caused.

PegLegAntoine · 26/11/2018 14:28

I would be losing patience too

UpstartCrow · 26/11/2018 14:32

Stop being helpful and see if your friendship survives, because my guess is she is using you like she used her family.

Original poster
JemimaPyjamas · 26/11/2018 14:34

It sounds even more ridiculous written down!

OP posts:
BewareOfDragons · 26/11/2018 14:39

She sounds incredibly immature, selfish, entitled, unrealistic and deluded ... I'm amazed she made it through medical school, frankly, let alone someone who is working as a GP. Her priorities are all screwed up; she should know better. Sad and infuriating that her attitude is to not sort herself out but to hope others will (family bailing her out again) and that the courts will write off all her debts. They shouldn't.

Original poster
JemimaPyjamas · 26/11/2018 14:42

I agree. It is a remarkably childish attitude, I’m struggling to understand it really

OP posts:
AdamNichol · 26/11/2018 14:43

If she files for bankruptcy, she'll be struck off - they won't risk someone financially vulnerable having prescription scripting powers.

They'll take the house, car, and other assets to minimise the debts; she won't be able to mortgage or rent or get another car.

She may well be looking at Universal Credit, with additional deductions to cover court mandated repayments; but at least that'll cover the rent (though it'll have to be thru the Local Authority).

I doubt very much that I'm describing a world that's better than her £420 after bills.
And that's the convo you need to have with her. She needs help to break the cycle and to see clearly. Perhaps she is reaching out to you to help her do this, even if it comes across as resisting. You need to be bluntly honest with her. After that, it's up to her to accept the help - can't do that bit for her.

MaryDollNesbitt · 26/11/2018 14:43

Tell her to get her arse off the moon and rocket back to earth pronto. I don't understand the mentality at all! OP, how have you not shaken her to bits yet? Shock I simply wouldn't have the patience to deal with her!

She's a GP working part time, earning bloody good money with over £400 disposable cash every month, and it's not enough?! She can dye her own hair and paint her own nails for less than a tenner! It might not be as nice as having somebody else do it, but when you stupidly get yourself into £20K of debt by living way beyond your means, I think it might be time to call it a day on being such an insufferable princess!

Walk away, OP. Seriously. She has to want to help herself, and she's not there yet. She's in the land of Denial, waiting for Merlin the Wizard to ride in on a mighty steed and magic it all away for her. Just leave her to it.

user1486915549 · 26/11/2018 14:43

How is she only earning £40,000 as a GP ?

bumblebee39 · 26/11/2018 14:44

Wow I wish I had the "choice"

If I have to go bankrupt then it will be because I am bankrupt. I genuinely will do anything to avoid it. Even if it means paying minimal repayments forever. & I didn't create the financial mess, my ex did in my name, if I had made the mess myself I'd be even more inclined to clear it up.

She sounds incredibly immature

AlexaAmbidextra · 26/11/2018 14:50

I’d hate to have a GP with such poor judgement.

newyorkartist · 26/11/2018 14:57

Bit of a myth that bankrupt doctors get struck off actually. The exception would be if the debt was related in any way to professional misconduct (either causally or in terms of what a doctor was getting up to to pay it off). It does show lack of judgement though, and an employer (present or future) would have some concerns about that as well as the specifics of her contract being relevant.

I think she probably needs professional help, both with her finances and her mental health. This is not quite normal behaviour. I think you can make suggestions, OP, and even signpost, but if she won't listen there may be a limit to what you can do, sadly. I don't think bankruptcy is a great solution though.

slutandslattern · 26/11/2018 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jaxhog · 26/11/2018 14:59

it won't leave enough to, as she puts it, live.

Neither will bankruptcy. And she will lose EVERYTHING of any value that she owns. She needs advice ASAP from an expert who will tell it to her straight, and who she can't ignore.

cantfindname · 26/11/2018 15:00

Oh the poor soul... not. Her idea of spending mpney is only slightly less that what I have to live on and pay the bills from every month.

One day reality will hit her very hard.

AdamNichol · 26/11/2018 15:04

Her contract may not say she gets the boot if bankrupt - however, the vast majority of public service contracts do have phrases relating to the maintenance of good standing / not bringing disrepute / etc.

skyesayshi · 26/11/2018 15:05

As others have stated, your friend needs to grow up and face reality.

First of all, her family haven't helped her by bailing her out in the past as she has just done it all over again. If anyone bails her out this time, she will do it all over again. ( I have seen this first hand with ex family members).

She needs to accept that she cannot accept certain things as she does not have enough money. She needs to realise that she can't afford the fancy car, fancy nails etc etc.

She should talk to a charity like stepchange, they work out essential living costs and how much you can afford to pay back in an IVA to avoid bankruptcy.

If she goes bankrupt, then they will work out her living costs and will monitor her spending. They will not allow her to repay any debts or to waste any money. If she owes any money to family, it will be considered written off and she won't be allowed to repay them whilst being monitored)

She will not be allowed credit for around 6 years and it will affect renting/getting a mortgage.

I despise people who deliberately run up debts and go bankrupt as the easy option, but in her case, it might be the only way to stop her spending.

She needs to learn a serious lesson.

HesaidIwasflighty · 26/11/2018 15:09

OP, you've done all you can to get your friend to see her situation clearly. If she can't see it for herself there's nothing more you can do. She has to accept that she's in debt and that she should cut back her spending for the foreseeable future.

I speak as someone who got into a similar amount of debt which took me years to pay off. For a long time, after rent, loan repayments and bills were paid, I had around €300 a month to cover groceries, petrol, incidentals, everything! It took me years, but by now my outlook on spending has changed thanks to being forced into frugality, and the stuff I thought I had to buy - and that I ran up credit card bills on - isn't so important any more.

BettyDuMonde · 26/11/2018 15:09

Bankruptcy might be good for her - she won’t be able access credit for ages, not even an overdraft. She’ll have to have a single bank account with an electron card, like a teenagers account.

Hopefully, by the time she is allowed credit again, she will have learned to budget and live with her means.

If she had a mortgage/owned a home this wouldn’t be a a viable option for her, but as she doesn’t. If her car is on credit she’ll likely lose it and have to save up and buy something second hand for cash instead.

ratspeaker · 26/11/2018 15:22

She does realise that if her sister has acted as guarantor the sister will be liable for any money owed.

SoaringSwallow · 26/11/2018 15:35

Maybe show her this thread..?