To ask if girls should be allowed to wear make up to school

[LEMtheoriginal]

Purely a question for the sake of a question.

My dd is 13 and bought her secret santa some eye shadow as she apparently likes make up. I dont wear make up and neither does dd so its never been an issue.

School allows MINIMAL make up and i was wondering should girls be allowed to wear make up as they choose?

My DPs argument is no they will look like clowns

Mine is a more serious worry about sexualisTion of young girls.

But should they not be able to experiment and express themselves? Oh and have pink hair should they choise?

There are plenty of things schools used to do that the students survived. Doesn't mean they were right, or the best way forward. If anything it's proof that banning make up at school doesn't automatically lead to a society where women who grew up with such policies don't feel the need to wear it as adults.

But it does put paid to the argument that its cruel not to let teenagers wear make up.

DD's have strict hair, make-up, jewellery, uniform rules. They all complain, but they do conform. No hair colouring, only natural, subtle make-up, only watches and plain studs allowed, strict uniform only.
Hair has to be tied up until year 10.

My DD had terrible acne, and did wear concealer and foundation, for a while, she still wears mascara sometimes, but nothing else. It was still subtle though, and she never got in trouble, as everything else was perfect. That was in year 8/9.

Thank goodness she doesn't always put the slap on now. Mornings are so much more calm. She actually has time to have breakfast rather than spending 1/2 hours on her face. She would rather have an extra few minutes in bed. Love that she is getting her priorities in order.

As you can tell, I am a supporter of strict uniform rules.

But it does put paid to the argument that its cruel not to let teenagers wear make up

Not really. Your argument is that you weren't allowed to wear it and you were fine/didn't mind. I would have minded a great deal if I hadn't been allowed to. Both anecdotes that don't prove anything, really.

It likely comes down to a difference of worldview. I think that control over self-presentation is important for self-esteem. That can mean wearing make up or not, as long as it's the individual's choice. I'd also scrap school uniforms, and any company policy that insists on make up or heels or anything like that. If you think self-presentation is unimportant, or you think enforced institutional conformity is a positive thing (I don't, but plenty of people on MN do) then we just won't agree on this.

I wore make up at school. Bad skin. If I'd been asked to take it off, quite honestly I don't know if I'd have carried on going to school. My nose was bright red without it, and I think I would've been bullied for it. With it I just looked normal.

Make up has moved on, there's loads around now that's actually good for your skin (not all of it, just some). So yeah I think people should be allowed to wear it. Not sure about jewellery though (for PE and so on) for practical reasons.

I would rather society concentrated on creating a safe space for teenagers so they could choose not to wear makeup rather than the pressure of perfection that make up is used as a form of disguise rather than an enhancer. The pressure on teenagers is just too much. Anyone who suffered with acne must remember the desperation every morning when looking in the mirror.

My DDs school doesn't have strict rules on makeup. So some girls wear it, others don't. My DDs don't. It's up to parents to raise confident children who wear makeup because they choose to, or not. I wore makeup now and then in school - these days I don't wear it at all. I don't think banning makeup in schools teaches young people to be confident to not wear it - I think it does quite the reverse. I don't think banning it is cruel, I just think it's useless and stupid. Like school uniform.

@claraschu i laughed out loud. i went to school in a country without school uniform. clothes and makeup were extremely important. and very sexualised - super tight jeans, short skirts , expensive make up. i love school uniform

Yura and clara and I had the opposite experience.

But to be fair, uniform isn't the point here. The point is what do we do to make young people feel they don't have to wear makeup to feel confident, but at the same time allowing them to find out what they're comfortable with.

The makeup problem in school was the constant checking and reapplying of it which was usually done by the wearers of a lot of makeup.

No, I don't think children should wear makeup at school. It wouldn't be so bad if they could do neutral makeup...but invariably they look like right tarts. There's plenty uni years for them to go around trowelling on the makeup and hiking their skirts up to their armpits. They should be forced to stay age appropriate in school. It might teach them some self respect.

It also falls into the “pick your battles” thing and trying to police subtle make up would be a pointless battle.

I think most make up wearing women have a subtle day to day look anyway so it’s just setting the normal routine a lot of women have (Some like to rock the clown look every day but hey they are adults so each to their own then!)

Lots of us grew up in a time when makeup was banned at school. We survived.

I'm not sure when this was, but when I was at secondary in the 80s make up was allowed, the rules and consequences were actually exactly the same as they are at my dds secondary - subtle foundation or cover up (not sure this was possible with Hide 'n Heal!), mascara and lip balm. If people turned up wearing twilight teaser lipstick and electric blue mascara they had to clean their faces in the pe teachers office with Anne French cleanser. At the dds school they have a packet of cleansing wipes in the pastoral office for the same purposes!

I think controls on things like make-up, hair colour, hairstyle, skirt length, acceptable clothes etc are all a really outdated way of looking at life.

Kind of get things like banning certain colours/garments if it’s about gang affiliations, or clamping down on certain brands if it’s being used as an excuse for bullying.

But generally I think

I made an early policy decision never to get in to big rows with my DC about stuff which readily washes off.

DD knows that if she gets in to trouble at school for wearing too much, I shall consider it her own silly fault and she takes the consequences (ditto for rolling up her skirt to pelmet)

We have had some interesting conversations about why she makes some choices about her appearance, and looking to see how far the things she likes at the moment are a product of fashion/peer pressure/social media/YouTube. The more she thinks about choices, big or small, and the more skilled she becomes in articulating her views, the better.

I'm ROFLing at the idea that wearing make up in school isn't a distraction from learning. While I'm sure that nobody here's DD would dream of asking for the fifth time to go to the loo in the middle of a lesson, but taking the make-up bag with them, of whining about having to do PE because of the fear of smudging their contouring, or even of whipping out the lippy in class, or acrylics so long that they literally cannot hold a pen...no, no distractions there.

Girls don't decide in a social vacuum to go for the caked-on look; safe space at school, where they're free from the pressure to be orange, may be something that they outwardly complain about, but inwardly welcome.

Yura so glad that I could make you laugh. I went to school in NYC, and had the opposite experience from you. Next time you are in Holland of Germany take a look at the teenagers and see how they compare to the British ones.

i’m from holland - teenagers look pretty much the same. too much makeup, skirts too short and wearing what’s in fashion, not what suits them ;)

btw, the country is called the Netherlands. holland is a pretty small part of it. i’m from holland though - zuid holland to be exact

Well yura, I'm a fellow Dutch person and you sound a bit like Plato, moaning about 'the youth of today' 2000 years ago... Who are you to judge what 'too much makeup' is, or what a too short skirt is, or what suits people? Should all Dutch teenagers be forced into a uniform, or conform to your standards of good taste? You sound like you're from the Dutch Bible Belt, to be honest...

Fashion goes in cycles. Teenagers learn as they grow up what suits them and how they can feel comfortable in their own skin. Your posts lack empathy for today's teenagers.

@pointythings all teenagers try out loads of fashion and find out whatcsuits them (and what not). doesn’t matter which country. i was answering to the poster above stating that dutch and getman girls dress completely different from uk ones. nope.

i quote
In countries without uniforms (most of Europe) I think teenagers dress in a less gendered way, and girls seem less obsessed with their makeup. The clothes they wear look more practical and low key to me, which seems like a very good thing.

no. dutch teenagers don’t dress more low key than uk ones. a bit different, but not more practical or low key (at least not in the big cities)

bertie my DGF on women wearing make up at work: "Show me a man who doesn't like a woman in make up and I'll show you a poof." I didn't realise I was there for my male boss to look at.

Yes. I had horrendous ance from 13. Really.decent foundation and concealer was only way is leave the house

It wouldn't be so bad if they could do neutral makeup...but invariably they look like right tarts

Just to be clear, you're calling schoolgirls tarts if they put make-up on?