To think if you are that scared of dogs you shouldn't be doing deliveries?

[MummySharkDoodoododoo]

I do totally understand that people don't all like dogs. I understand that some are terrified of them.

But 2 deliveries this week have been by people that are too scared of my dogs, who are always shut in the kitchen before I open the front door, as I do respect that not every body wants to meet them, which is fine.

Today, the woman knocked on my door. The dogs barked, I shut them in the kitchen and then opened the door, she was stood 2 doors away, at the end of the driveway, shouting that she had a delivery for me. I was in my pjs and had no shoes on, so was expecting her to come and give them to me. She asked if the dogs were ok, I said yeah they are fine and are shut in the kitchen and can't get out. She came closer but still wouldn't come down my drive, I ended up coming out in bare feet and getting the parcel and signing for it at the end of the driveway.

Similar happened last week although he did deliver to the door, but said he wouldn't have knocked if he knew I had dogs

For context, one is big and one small. Both never hurt anybody and live with 4 kids, including special needs kids. They just bark at the door like most dogs I've met.

If people are that scared of dogs, that they can't come to my door with a parcel, surely they are in the wrong job? If the dogs were on my doorstep with teeth showing I'd totally get it, but surely once I've said they are shut in the kitchen that should be enough??? My mum hates dogs and doesn't go near them, but I shut them in the kitchen and that's the end of that. She was bitten by a dog years ago and I totally understand it.

Aibu to think this woman is in the wrong job???

So if you’ve got a dog that barks to protect you when someone knocks the door or tries to enter your property etc, even though it’s safely locked away and you’re a responsible dog owner that would never allow your dog to approach a stranger anyway and have also explained they’re locked away you should still have to come to the door, regardless of personal situation?
Yes, you should be prepared to. The delivery person doesn't know how responsible a dog owner you are or the suitability of any precautions you've taken. They work in an industry where dog bites are common; clearly they cannot safely rely on all dog owners being suitably responsible and making suitable precautions.

I agree with you. But then I had a bad experience with a delivery driver and my dog in that the stupid bastard opened my front door instead of knocking and my dog got out. I’d come to the door by this point to see what the bloody hell was going on and he THREW my parcel at my dog and ran away.

loved writing that complaint email

Good point about the postal service blacklisting addresses that don't control their dogs, to protect their staff.

The reason they do this is that posties are permanent staff and have a union who will fight to make sure the employer actually exercises their duty of care.

Many delivery firms classify their staff as "self-employed" in order to get away with not giving them any employment rights or benefits.

Flewog doesn’t work like that in rural France! There are loose dogs everywhere, farm dogs, hunting dogs, dogs out for a walk by themselves!

When screaming toddlers start causing actual injuries to postal workers, you'll have a valid point

When dogs contained behind closed doors attack people, I think you'll have a valid point too.

If OP came out the house and physically closed the front door behind her, would people still agree the delivery person would be reasonable to refuse to come to the door?

Good point about the postal service blacklisting addresses that don't control their dogs, to protect their staff.

Agreed. That would hopefully concentrate the minds of feckless owners.

Ah - another dog owner with no consideration for people who are afraid of dogs. And of course you're one of the 'good' owners.....

Many delivery firms classify their staff as "self-employed" in order to get away with not giving them any employment rights or benefits.
A good point also. If they're self-employed, they can do as they please, including taking all steps they deem reasonable to protect themselves from harm.

If certain customers don't like it, they can complain to the delivery company (an industry well known for taking seriously the complaints of customers...)

In reality, owners of loose or barking dogs are just going to have to put up with going outside to collect parcels on occasion.

We have this with our dog. He’s a lab with a bark worse than his bite. Our regular couriers and postie know he is locked away before I answer the door but the ones who aren’t regular are terrified when he lets out one of his booming barks.

The non regular ones always tend to disappear back out on to the street.

When dogs contained behind closed doors attack people, I think you'll have a valid point too.
Because no dogs have ever got out of a closed room before. In fact, that's precisely what happened with the one that has left me with life long scars.

If OP came out the house and physically closed the front door behind her, would people still agree the delivery person would be reasonable to refuse to come to the door?
It's for the delivery driver to assess the risk and determine (for all they know there could be another open door or window). I'm content to leave it up to the individual delivery driver if they want to trust the dog owner and come onto a property with an aggressive-sounding dog.

The woman the OP refers to may have been Ok until very recently, when someone was not as responsible as you were. The number of postal workers bitten by dogs is considerable.

Ok after reading this I’m not really sure what the answer is? Because I own a dog should I not get mail or deliveries? What should I physically do with my dog if locking her behind a door isn’t good enough? Tie her up? Gag her? What can I do?

Because no dogs have ever got out of a closed room before. In fact, that's precisely what happened with the one that has left me with life long scars.

Sorry about your experience.

If the delivery person in this case is that scared, I wonder how she copes generally. There's always the extreme likelihood of come across someone merely walking a dog - barky or otherwise - on a lead (which could more easily escape from an owner than a dog behind a closed door, I would think).

I'm content to leave it up to the individual delivery driver if they want to trust the dog owner and come onto a property with an aggressive-sounding dog.

Would you extend that discretion to someone who doesn't want to come onto the property of a person whose has a dog they can see at the window who isn't barking or aggressive sounding?

If someone is shit scared of dogs, the mere presence of a dog on the property might be enough to put them off going up the garden path - okay or not?

The number of postal workers bitten by dogs is considerable.

That should definitely be addressed. I'm (very) foggy on the issue, but is there some kind of problem about prosecuting people whose dogs attack on private land?

I had a bad experience with a delivery driver and my dog in that the stupid bastard opened my front door

Many years ago, a delivery driver did this and was bitten by my normally placid Labrador as he slid the parcel round the door. Fortunately, the driver wasn’t really hurt, realised he’d been an idiot and that the dog was just doing what dogs are likely to do when strange people invade their home unexpectedly - so no more was said. The driver continued delivering, but subsequently always rung the bell and waited. He and the dog had a cordial relationship thereafter.

It doesn't unbite the postie or restore their severed finger though Butchy if the company pressed charges.

I'm the first person to complain about entitled dog owners who don't understand a fear of dogs but I'm with the OP. If you can't deal with dogs to the point you refuse to deliver a parcel to a door when you've been told the dog is shut away then no, you shouldn't do that job.

Dd is terrified of dogs and it means there are a lot of things she misses out on. She complains about it but we make it very clear. We are not going to make other people shut their pets away so she can go trick or treating or have play dates where there are pets. One or two family members keep their dogs away and when we visit we spend time getting her to know them so she learns not to be so afraid. But where family don't do it she's told straight, her fear is her issue and as long as people are keeping their pets under control she has no right to insist they lock them away when she is there.

If you have a fear that prevents you doing your job, get another job. Imagine a firefighter afraid of heights. Or a nurse who faints at the sight of blood. It's a red herring to say it's the only job. There are other jobs out there.

It doesn't unbite the postie or restore their severed finger though Butchy if the company pressed charges.

Absolutely, but it might make other feckless types think twice about if they see people starting to be prosecuted for the behaviour of their animals.

Being blacklisted by mail companies would probably hit many people hard.

You are defo not being unreasonable but loads will disagree

This reminds me of the Tesco delivery man who became very aggressive, completely shouty & in my face about my dog even when my dog was shut on the other side of a child gate (she is harmless, never seen her so much as growl). Told me how much he disliked dogs & would I always keep her away from him. He told me that Asda just deliver to outside the front door. Ummm yes but my order was with Tesco who will bring in the house. Never felt so uncomfortable about having someone deliver to my house & knowing where I live he was so unpleasant & aggressive. I actually had to ask him to leave as he got so irate for no reason other than my disagreeing with him about how terrible dogs are. (All the other delivery men come in & make a big fuss of my dog as she is so friendly.)

I get that people making deliveries may have a phobia but i agree with you OP that if you're scared of dogs, making deliveries probably isn't the job for you.

If the delivery person in this case is that scared, I wonder how she copes generally. There's always the extreme likelihood of come across someone merely walking a dog - barky or otherwise - on a lead (which could more easily escape from an owner than a dog behind a closed door, I would think).
Well, I don't know about the particular delivery person but I can tell you about how I cope. When out walking and I see a dog, sometimes I feel scared and sometimes I don't. The factors may include the breed of dog and how it's behaving at the time.

If I see a dog and it makes me feel hesitant, I cross the street if there is the opportunity to do so. If I have no choice but to walk past it, I hold my breath and give it as wide a berth as possible.

Earlier this week when I was walking, there was a person walking their dog some twenty metres in front of me and someone was walking with another dog in the opposite direction. I stopped walking briefly while the dogs met each other. I think one bit the other, there was a brief scuffle, aggressive barking and the two owners quickly carried on walking in their respective directions, dragging their dogs along- including the one walking towards me.

There was nowhere for me to cross the road and, as I was on my way to a meeting, I had to carry on. As I passed the dog, it came over to me (probably just to give me a sniff). The owner could probably tell I was uncomfortable and doing my best to avoid it, so pulled the dog back towards her and carried on walking.

My heart was pounding and I briefly felt tearful, but carried on with my day.

If someone self-employed is as scared of dogs as you describe (to the point where they won't enter a property at all if there's a dog there) - it's still up to them. There is always a degree of risk with a dog (I've been on the receiving end of two 'oh he's never done anything like that befores' where there were no warning barks).

If the package still makes it to the recipient undamaged, odds are the delivery person is not going to receive any sort of complaint and can carry on doing their job to the level they feel safe.

On the other hand, if the packages frequently go missing, because they were not delivered to the door, and the delivery person starts to incur financial loss, they probably do need to start looking for alternative employment.

If it's a postal worker (I.e. an employee rather than a self-employed person), then what is reasonable or not is up to their employer. I suspect that, if there's nothing to suggest that the dog may not be under control, the worker will be expected to enter the property.

I was a delivery driver for many years and I love dogs. I was bitten three times. once when the lady said "don't worry he won't bite you" he did. The second a lady let he Jack Russel bite my leg (apparently she'd done it before to other drivers) another time I posted amparcel and the dog got my fingers.

I loved my job but I then became very wary of all dogs unless I knew them and the owners very well. Once bitten and all.
YABU even the owners of the nicest dogs used to tell me their dogs would suddenly go mad when they saw a postman or delivery driver.

Absolutely, but [prosecution] might make other feckless types think twice about if they see people starting to be prosecuted for the behaviour of their animals.

Being blacklisted by mail companies would probably hit many people hard.
Prosecutions and black listing already happen; in fact, neighbouring properties can be blacklisted if there is an out of control dog nearby.

Unfortunately, dog attacks on postal workers and delivery people still routinely happen every day - the deterants do not solve the problem.

The injured postal worker is more likely to receive some sort of benefits or compensation. The self-employed delivery driver might just have to live with the injury and its consequences, including the resulting financial losses.

So these dogs are barking madly in another room. Op is unable to command them to stop barking but says "don't worry its safe". It clearly ISNT. Are delivery drivers supposed to gamble with their 'lives' that these dogs wont escape and attack them.

I am not scared of dogs but no F*ing way would I go to someones open door that had angry dogs barking like mad to attack me, just because the person standing there said, "dont worry its fine".

If you have vicious dogs then put some shoes on and walk to the end of the drive for your delivery. Don't expect delivery drivers to trust someone who says "don't worry the probably can't attack you.

Personally I think owners like this should go to a depot to collect parcels.

YANBU. Your dogs were not interacting with the drivers. Their job is to deliver and your dogs were not interfering with that.

On a similar note, the dry cleaners told me to make sure there was no cat hair on my coat ‘as we have people who are allergic to cats’. Well, is cleaning the ideal job for them?