To tell this employee to use some initiative

[lastqueenofscotland]

I manage a small team, they all get the same amount of training and all but one of them are great.
It’s not difficult work, basic admin tasks and answering the phone.
There is one that literally just doesn’t get it for whatever reason.
Some examples include every time the phone rings he looks round and asks if he should answer it rather than just picking it up and whatever they ask even if it’s our office address he will ask me (often forgetting to put them on hold first).
We only use the outlook diary, if you ask him to move something in it he asks what diary every single time.
We are a paper free office, all our files are on the computer in a really obviously named document and they are all clearly labled.
If you ask him to scan and file something he will EVERY TIME ask where the filing cabinet is.

I feel like it’s a weird joke he has with me it’s so frequent.
Aibu to tell him he needs to start figuring things out by himself?

So as not to drip feed he’s got a degree from a Russel group uni so should be fairly bright!

Sometimes you just can't win with this kind of thing. I remember one of my superiors laughing at me for asking whether he wanted his photocopies stapled. However, it had happened previously and even years afterwards that I'd been told off for stapling without permission.

I'm sure I come across as someone who's not very proactive and won't take initiative, but you haven't seen what my first office job was like and how I was 'trained' to be.

I work with someone Like this. He’s dyslexic.

Doesn’t stop it being utterly infuriating when he asks for the millionth time where to find something.

Speak to him. Tell him exactly what you've told us.
If it doesn't improve he'll need to be disciplined. And let go.

I'd be tempted to tell him to get an indexed notebook and write everything down that he needs to know. Did he take notes during training? I am reminded of a public school boy who worked for me while completing his masters. He was painful to begin with. He wanted to do whatever task was in hand to 100% perfection even if that meant ignoring other work. He was extremely clever but lacked intelligence. I dread to think how much he cost the company in the beginning. He came good in the end.

DD isn't an "upstart" and she hasn't reorganised any filing systems as far as I know. She works in 3 jobs and she has worked hard to put together a career at a young age. None of her other employers has a problem with her and the manager of the office-type place doesn't either, it's the two other staff members.

Young people in offices can't win. If they just go along with things, be meek and ask permission, they're lacking in initiative and need to be Told or Shown the Door.

If they are more proactive and want to learn and improve and contribute to what's going on, they're nasty little upstarts who think they know better than their superiors and need to Know Their Place or be Shown the Door.

I work with a few people like this - in Civil Service they are far too often found languishing in the admin grades for decades at a time, being asked to do less and less because they're consistently useless and no one was brave enough to fail their probation or performance manage them.

I had one call me up yesterday to tell me they'd decided to prepare a spreadsheet differently than I'd instructed, because it was easier. Never mind that it wouldn't show the required information. She was truly miffed when I politely asked her to prepare what I'd asked for, because that was what I needed.

Another of our admin of at least 15 years service makes new and increasingly creative mistakes every time, and can't fart without emailing for permission (and then gets it wrong!). It's very wearing and a total waste of my time that could be spent on grade appropriate technical work rather than checking they got today's date right on a letter.

This is what probation periods are for. Lay down your expectations now, and get rid if he doesn't meet them.

What I will say about initiative though is that some people do not have any, and will not suddenly develop any just because it suits you! He might still be able to do the job perfectly well though.

"I had one call me up yesterday to tell me they'd decided to prepare a spreadsheet differently than I'd instructed, because it was easier. Never mind that it wouldn't show the required information. She was truly miffed when I politely asked her to prepare what I'd asked for, because that was what I needed. "

This is the absolute opposite to what OP's talking about! You're criticising people for taking initiative in this example.

"What I will say about initiative though is that some people do not have any, and will not suddenly develop any just because it suits you!"

I don't think it's something you're born with or not. It's something that can be 'beaten' out of you (I mean metaphorically) though as happened to me in my first few jobs.
I remember moving into a different office and rearranging the furniture with my colleague (the office was just for the two of us), only to have our manager come in and say we should have asked his permission first.

You really can't win and it doesn't have much to do with being young.

Could you type him up a crib sheet to shownyoi when taken reasonable steps to accommodate him

No, the spreadsheet preparer was not showing initiative, she was trying to make her own life easier. I know this because she actually told me that!

OP, he sounds passive aggressive. I also think that a PP was on to something when she suggested that he might think that the work is somehow beneath him so is being awkward about doing it.

I’m in the ‘get rid’ camp. I’ve worked with people like that in the past. They won’t make a single decision for themselves, no matter how simple, because they ‘might get into trouble’. Which means that their colleagues, especially their line manager, get all the mental load.

The low point for me was a woman who tried to get me to draw a flow chart for what she should say to customers during a half hour meeting. Half an hour! Think about how many remarks are traded in that time. But no, she wasn’t going to think for herself. She wanted me to flowchart “what should I say if they say X? What will they say back? Then what should I say?” covering around 20 possible topics. She was most put out when I said no.

Life is too short to work with people like this.

Get rid.

Other than that, I use this for training.

Tell them what you’re going to do, and why.

Show them how to do it, while they write notes (tell them explicitly to write down the steps).
Ask them to talk you through what they’ve seen.
Get them to do it.
Get them to explain to you what they did.

If they come back to ask how to do it a second time, I’ll ask them what they’ve tried so far, what they remembered from when we did it together, and what they’ve written down.

Nobody gets shown how to do something straightforward more than twice.

"No, the spreadsheet preparer was not showing initiative, she was trying to make her own life easier."

This is where most good initiatives come from. Someone realising they can speed things up by doing it differently. Of course, it didn't work this time because some information you needed wasn't included.

"I also think that a PP was on to something when she suggested that he might think that the work is somehow beneath him so is being awkward about doing it."

I think that's very unlikely.

You need a meeting!!

You seem to be struggling to retain basic information, how do usually remember stuff - do you write it down???

Then get him to write it down:

Answer phone within 3 rings
Company address
Which info goes in what diary
Where the filing cabinet is

And so on...

Also when they ask something give him the answer and tell him to "write it down in your training book"

I may be reading a completely different side to this OP but to me, if I’m putting myself in his shoes, he seems to be struggling and not because of lack of training, but because of some anxiety or confidence based issue. It’s not your job to solve at all but I think taking him for a quick chat and phrasing the concerns in a positive way may be helpful. Something like “EmployeeName, I’ve noticed you’ve been struggling a bit recently in really taking the reins and owning your role. Are you feeling ok about it? For example - list specific examples here, be specific - what do you think about that?”

Be kind and leave it open. If he improves after said chat, win win. If not, you’ve raised it in a very fair way and offered support, so discussions about “not being a good fit here” would be appropriate next.

Fingers crossed all works out though!

We have job instructions for each job , we are old fashioned and have cards but you could easily file them on a computer . Go through each job again with written instructions and then ask him to try for a week referring to the instructions and let you know if there are any problems . Sounds like being anxious to try and do things correctly , which might be better than not caring at all . I have a colleague like that and now I just say , if I was not here what would you do ? And 99 times out of a hundred she knows the answer , it’s just her confidence .

A colleague in my last job made me feel like shit for showing initiative so I didn’t. Of course my boss (who was a good bloke) had no idea, the colleague was basically bullying me but as he had the CEO’s ear I felt like I couldn’t say anything, and when my boss strongly suggested I find a new job I went more or less immediately. I’m now considered a top performer.

I suggest getting the employee in a coffee shop away from the others and ask him frankly why he feels like he has to ask everytime he does something. You may get to the root of it.

We have people like this where I work abf they can't be fired because they've been there too long. Basically taking up a desk and a salary a more useful person could use.

But they also get the really crap, really easy, mind numbingly boring jobs that no one else wants to do, so that's a help I guess. And they still complain its too hard. One of them hated it and started demanding to be moved to another team. Someone dropped a hint to him that said team has a ton of work, it's fast paced and the client gets very angry if you drop the ball. He went quiet and stayed where he is. God forbid he has to do work for once..

Some written policies and procedures for him to keep on his desk - best if he writes them down himself so then he understands what he has written.

Is this his first job?

Could this person have autism?

There's a newbie in our department with a very good degree but lacks 'all common sense'.

She was meant to buy some resources for an event that night. I asked her to get XYZ but shop around as it wasn't necessarily cheaper to buy it from the same shop. I gave her the money, she told me over the phone what shops were cheaper, I told her 'that sounds good for tonight'. She didn't actually buy the items as I didn't tell her too. Other members of the department also raised an eyebrow when she returned as they understood what I meant. Now I have to tell her exactly that doesn't leave anything to the imagination. She's done lots of things similar when I've told her in meetings 'to look into XZY' or 'Sarah* can you do that today?' as she internally thinks 'yes I could do that today if you asked me too'

She's not lazy -far from it but she just needs firm direction. Could you explain to him that he needs to answer the phone if it rings and follow the training etc. Maybe he misunderstands if someone says filing as he internally relates that to a filling cabinet?

Now Sarah* knows exactly the processes she's amazing - gets everything done before everyone else, works hard and I can rely on her more than the others in a similar role.

I read all these responses with a sinking heart. Only a couple of people out of all these posters suggesting that he might have an issue; everyone else shouting sack him. Zero empathy and zero understanding.

I have ADHD, diagnosed in my 50s. They also think I probably have ASD. I can do anything I need to do at work, as long as I have clear direction. What I can't do (and believe me, I've tried) is work out what I'm supposed to do in a new job unless somebody spells it out.

I spent 2 years on a team that sounds remarkably like those all the pps are in. Don't tell me what I'm supposed to do, then have a go at me because I can't figure it out. Don't talk to me and find out why I'm struggling, just tell me I'm shit. A huge shock after 12 years in an organisation where I was treated like the best thing since sliced bread because I would take on all the hard tasks that no-one else wanted to do. But in that place there was a logic, and written instructions for every task.

Jalf has the right approach. Take him for a private 1:1, ask him if he is OK and explain what you've said here. Find out what the issue is, rather than assume he is taking the piss. Only then will you know how to proceed.

If he is taking the piss then fine, disciplinary, warning, whatever. If he is worried sick about doing something wrong then he needs it explaining in words of one syllable. In my shitty team nobody told me to write stuff down, and it honestly didn't occur to me. Not everyone's brains work the same way. I now write everything down and refine it as I learn more about the task.

WeaselsRising

I think maybe others are talking about people that they have shown the job to and the person still repeats the same questions.

I had to train someone like that once. They were hopeless. I had written out very extensive work procedures on how to do this piece of work. It had diagrams, screenshots etc telling you exactly what yo do. I even showed them it in person several times, slowly as well, walked them through it showing them what to click etc.

Every single time they did the work themselves, they broke it and got it massively wrong. I tried for 6 months to get them to understand it, I even had other people try it to make sure it wasn't my training. It wasn't, they were just useless.

Others are probably meaning people like that.

Don't tell me what I'm supposed to do, then have a go at me because I can't figure it out. Don't talk to me and find out why I'm struggling, just tell me I'm shit. I don't see anyone saying they do that. OP has said there has been training that has been adequate for others.

Posters like myself have pointed out that more personalised approach may be required (though past experience suggest that this is often ineffective and more painful for everyone if that person is just in the wrong job).

I've worked in offices with the Big Boss individual who sets the agenda. One woman simply never told me what I was supposed to do and then told the boss I was useless. When I explained what had happened she called me a liar and smirked as I left the building. I always wondered how shit her personal life must have been, to make her behave like that.

Sometimes you just don't fit. Sometimes it is what you do, others what you don't do. Occasionally it is someone else. But every individual has to work that out for themselves and, in my experience, just leave behind the places that you don't fit. If you spent your energy on replacing that job instead of trying to change that particular culture, you just end up every unhappy!

Come to think of it, that's why I left teaching! Over the years I became less and less of a good fit! When I realise it was me I felt a lot happier. Even more so when I left!

I have similar, not so bad and it’s more down to confidence. First office job so unlikely to be past experience. I’m terrible due to my own past experience of micro management and being discouraged from showing initiative, so not the best at addressing the issues. I’ve suggested couraes to help and the deadline has passed without a response. I’ve suggested writing up the processes but received nothing months later. I often turn the questions round to ask what they think they should do. I’m pushing so they ask the person concerned rather than checking with me first. I feel more like a parent than a manager at times. Luckily a lot of the easy but boring bulk of the work is done but I still need to remind them to do routine tasks.

Clanger - the work place is only as hard for young people as it ever was.

My impression is young people are more likely to lack initiative because they are infantilised by parents/society far more now. The upside of hands off (neglectful) and poor parents for me was being forced to organise and think for myself. Leaving home for uni is good but staying home or living in halls is less ‘real life’ like. Or having parents pay for everything so no need to budget. My staff member is probably this way because of their parents, plus no uni or travel. Parents dictate their annual leave. At the same age I’d been away to uni, travelled a fair bit and moved to London on my own. I was married with a mortgage and a baby a few years later. It wasn’t that long ago. Doing everything for your kids isn’t a good long term solution to helping then become independent.

"Only a couple of people out of all these posters suggesting that he might have an issue; everyone else shouting sack him. Zero empathy and zero understanding."

A few people have been sympathetic Weasels. I'd also say that you shouldn't need to have a diagnosis of a learning difficulty or a condition to get sympathy. We should all be sympathetic of each other.
Some of the comments were horrible, using language like 'get rid' and talking of sacking him without giving further training or going straight to a disciplinary, but I've come to expect these on MN now.