To think school should help?

[twentytimes]

Dsd who is 10 and in year 6 has had a tough time of it recently, this has resulted as well as other things in a fear of being locked in on her own anywhere and of using public toilets.

She’s only just told us but the past few weeks she has been completely unable to go to the toilet at school and has also refused to drink any liquids before or during school to avoid needing to. This is obviously affecting her concentration and making the whole day very difficult for her. Twice she’s been picked up because she says she’s too ill and both times she’s made a full recovery as soon as we get home so its affecting her attendance too.

She is seeing the GP on friday and we are researching other ways that we can help her. DP phoned her school this morning and explained what was going on and that we were sorting it but in the mean time could they arrange something to make it easier for her such as be allowed to use staff or medical room toilets during lessons.
They basically just told him no and that unless she has a medical condition they don’t have to even think about doing anything.

Aibu to think they should help?
Do they really not have to do anything?

EricTheGuineaPig I wonder how much the school have been told and exactly who the dsd's dad spoke to at the school though.

It sounds as though only one phone call has been made.

It's entirely likely that her dad phoned the school, spoke to an office staff member (as that's who he probably got through to) and quite literally said "DD has been through a tough time lately and is scared to go to the loo at school in case she gets locked in, please could you allow her to use the staff or medical room toilet for now until we've had a chance to sort this out?" To which the office staff gave a standard reply - no exceptions without a diagnosis or doctor's note.

The school should help if this is simply a symptom of a wider anxiety problem triggered by traumatic events, but the right people at the school might not be aware of the full picture.

This is a child who is quite clearly having some kind of mental health issues - she's had a rough year and is showing signs of anxiety that are focused on the loos. The school have said they don't have to do anything and have shown no interest in trying to work with the child or her family to work out what's wrong and how to help. Why is that acceptable just because it's a mental health issue?

When my child was showing signs of anxiety his teacher proactively called us in for a meeting and worked out a load of strategies, organised counselling and helped us get a cahms referral.

Any disabled toilets she can use? They are roomier and often have alarms or are near the school office.

Definitely a GP letter would help with the school.

twentytimes her dad (and you, if you can go with him) needs to get a proper sit down meeting with her teacher and explain that this is one of several symptoms of anxiety that she is exhibiting at the moment and which you are seeking medical attention about.

Point out that it's causing her to refuse to drink, which is impairing her concentration and putting her at risk of UTI s.

Ask if she could have a toilet pass until Christmas or go home for lunch.

It might be easier to have this meeting next week, after the GP appointment.

If the teacher is unhelpful you can then ask for the SENCO's contact details, but start by assuming he or she will want to help when they have all the information.

Why is that acceptable just because it's a mental health issue?

Nobody is saying it is acceptable but if the DSD only informed the Op and her Dad today and her father only called this morning then how would the school know the severity of the issue?

Like a previous poster said, chances are her Dad only spoke to the receptionist, you need to speak to the class teacher and headteacher if you want them to help. Her teacher probably has no idea she's not going to the toilet why would she most of her class would be going at break and lunch so easy to not notice.

Do they have nobody at school that provides any kind of counselling? It's all very well people saying 'get her help' as if that can be done quickly - you'd probably be referred to cahms and that can take months.

Do you honestly think many schools have direct access to counsellors? Schools make referrals to CAMHS.

I think disabled toilets are the medical room toilets that I mentioned so we were told no to her being able to use them without a medical condition and without being able to lock the door.

*It sounds as though only one phone call has been made.

It's entirely likely that her dad phoned the school, spoke to an office staff member (as that's who he probably got through to) and quite literally said "DD has been through a tough time lately and is scared to go to the loo at school in case she gets locked in, please could you allow her to use the staff or medical room toilet for now until we've had a chance to sort this out?" To which the office staff gave a standard reply - no exceptions without a diagnosis or doctor's note.*

Just what I was thinking.

You can't really blame the school for not helping when your dd has only just told you what has been happening and you don't seem to have spoken to her teacher.

I'd go in and talk face to face with the class teacher. Explain how anxious your daughter is and how this is affecting her. Let the teacher know that you have concerns about your dd's health and that it's also affecting her work.

Hopefully you'll be able to find a workable solution. Don't expect instant answers. The teacher may need time to think creatively or might need to go and talk to somebody else. But if you aren't happy with the outcome then make an appointment to see the SENCO or Key Stage/Phase leader.

Who did your DH speak too?

At my kids school, one of the receptionists would give a similar reply, however the class teacher, senco or most other staff members would be far more sympathetic.

It might be worth asking for an appointment with the Class teacher, ks2 leader and senco to get some kind of support plan in place.

Yes, I think he just spoke to someone in the office, I don't know the whole of the conversation only what I heard from the other room and what he told me but he's at work now so I can't ask anymore.

He didnt demand they just let her use the staff toilets, he asked what they could do and when he was told nothing suggested being able to use either the staff or medical room toilets during lesson time. He also asked if there was someone who could speak to dsd to see if theres anything that works for her and the school.

Hopefully once we get through the gp appointment, he can speak to someone else at school next week and they will be more helpful.

As a Senco, if a parent spoke to me about this, I would be making reasonable adjustments to ensure she felt able to use the loo in privacy when she wants.
I would actually nominate a TA to support her a couple of times during the day perhaps after breaks when everyone else Is in class. I would not advocate another child being a 'buddy', that's humiliating!
I would also advise she went to the GP as she is developing a phobia which could have serious health problems! Please don't suggest her coming home at dinner, that's not a long term solution.

I imagine having a child use staff toilets but not locking the door would be seen as a risk, as staff might walk in while she’s in there.

They should be helping to come up with a more workable solution though, such as letting her go in lesson time. It’s in their interest for her to be at school and able to concentrate!

It sounds like you spoke to someone in the office who gave a standard reply about needing a doctor's note. I'd speak to the class teacher or Senco instead to gain an idea of what the school can do.

It might be that she can use the medical room toilets but not staff. Staff need a place to use the toilet/cry in peace without any children watching. There need to be some boundaries. It's not appropriate to have children in there for safeguarding reasons either.

I think you should ask the school to release her 5 minutes before breaks to go to the lavatory. The class TA could hold the door, surely?

Although, if there is no close friend she trusts, it sounds like her problem is more complex than just using the loo.

That said she could go home for lunch and that would mitigate the problem until she’s had a proper assessment.

Please don't suggest her coming home at dinner, that's not a long term solution.

But if the school isn't able to provide a way for her to go at school that sounds like the best immediate option apart from her not going at all.
She's spending the whole day at the moment worrying about it and what would happen if she really needed the toilet as well as being really dehydrated and uncomfortable. If that continue's any longer then all of the issue's she's having are going to get a lot worse

You need to speak to her teacher or senco. A toilet pass so she can go just before/after break or lunch when no one else is around should work?

That said lots of kids refuse to use toilets at school because they're rank. They all seem to survive.

The class TA could hold the door, surely?

That would work - IF the class has a TA. In these days of shrinking budgets not every class has its own TA, especially in KS2.

I think you could ask a teacher/ta to demonstrate howith they can unlock them from the outside. My Dd s never went during theschool day, a lot don't. Sometimes these things are phases so try not to worry too much. Will she go to the toilet with the doir unlocked when you're out and about?

@CherryPavlova it would actually require two members of staff, one to hold the door and one to supervise and check that nothing untoward was happening.

We are not allowed to share toilets with students as it is a safeguarding issue so the daughter could not use the staff toilets.

Op I think you need to request a meeting. An informal request over the phone will not have been understood properly. Speak to the class teacher or pastoral support/senco about the issue and I'm sure they will be more accommodating when they understand the severity of your daughter's issues. The office staff wouldn't be able to make that decision, it would have to come from someone more senior anyway.

Hope the GP appointment is useful and you make some headway as to overcoming these issues.

It only needs two members of staff if the school is massively over reacting to a non existent risk. If the child asks for the support of an adult they trust there is no national guidance in the U.K. that prevents that happening. It’s certainly not part of Working Together. World’s going slowly mad if people think a TA standing near a lavatory door is an issue.

Don't they have a disabled loo so she is self contained. Poor kid. I hope she gets some decent psychological intervention soon (you may want to go private if you can afford it to avoid waiting lists).

What has changed recently, given this is a recent issue? I get you're looking for the now solution- but the long term solution is getting to the bottom of why this has suddenly developed and Delia g with that, bit pulling her out of school- that's just going to increase the issue. Her Dad needs to talk to slnrone other than the office- her teacher. Are they aware she is going through something at the moment? Has her behaviour changed at school? If she has contact with her mum- has anything been noticed there regarding behaviour?

We don't know entirely whats caused it. Its probably a mixture of some big and some little things that have built up over time but dsd isn't able to explain why she's suddenly feels so panicky and can't do it.
She's fine at home as long as the door is open and we know that she's in there but isn't managing on her own in any sort of public toilets.