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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think I'd keep my leave?

51 replies

HRissue · 21/11/2018 09:39

Posting here for traffic and bc as very outing.

I’m getting to the end of the annual leave year at work, and I had two hours leave leftover to use so I’d booked it on a particular day.

However when that day came I ended up being very unwell and calling in sick and calling in for most of that week ( 3 days).

When I came back to work I’d been automatically given back the two hours by our system we use to book leave so I mentioned in passing to my line manager that I was looking to book the leave.

He told me that you don’t get leave back if you have been off sick. I questioned this and said ‘but you put me down as sick that day?’ And he said ‘yes that’s right’. I said ‘how can I be sick and have leave in the same day’ and he said ‘that’s just how it works’.

Anyway, I came back in work and noticed that the hour’s leave has been deducted from me again, with no comment from my manager. However on my return to work paperwork from when I was off sick they also said I was off sick for 22.5 hours (ie 7.5 x3).

To me this doesn’t seem right. I will accept the policy if that’s the case I’ve lost the leave, but calculating their lost time rate including the hour I had as leave does not seem right to me? Any HR people around that can confirm?

OP posts:
Fuckertyfickfack · 21/11/2018 10:42

it was either leave or sick, they can't put it down as both.

gamerwidow · 21/11/2018 10:44

You should get it back and it’s extremely petty and silly of the manager not to let you take it. Two hours leave is nothing in the grand scheme of things but so damaging to the goodwill in your relationship in the long term.

Thebluedog · 21/11/2018 10:45

As a manager I’ve always given back leave if the employee was off sick , it’s hr policy where I work

DarlingNikita · 21/11/2018 10:54

I'd talk to HR and not worry about seeming underhand. You can say you wanted to get confirmation from the horse's mouth.

The last place I worked, if you'd booked leave but then were ill during it, you could get the leave back if you had a GP's note. I know your period of sickness is under the threshold for a note and would usually come under the self-certifying thing, but I did it once and I'd only been ill for about two days, I think; it's different if you're ill while on leave.

ErickBroch · 21/11/2018 10:57

I work for a large company in the UK and our policy is that if you are sick, it needs to be at least the day before that you inform your line manager so that it can be changed to sick instead of AL.

PuppyMonkey · 21/11/2018 10:57

I think you should get the leave back too, OP, but you might be in for a load of hassle trying to prove it, your boss might be an arse about it etc etc. Is it worth it?

perhaps you could just have a day off sick skiving to get your own back Wink

Alfie190 · 21/11/2018 10:58

If I was on my two week annual vacation and was ill one day, I wouldn't dream of trying to claim it back. So on that basis. I wouldn't expect it here either and wouldn't bother about two hours either.

LizzieBennettDarcy · 21/11/2018 11:01

All this for two hours............

Seriously Hmm

Original poster
HRissue · 21/11/2018 11:01

@Alfie190 the conversation has moved on, and I’d already acknowledged I wasn’t getting the time back. What I take exception to is them taking the annual leave off me and also using the same time against me in their calculation of how much time I had sick.

Do you think it’s right that they’ve said I’ve had the two hours leave but also used the two hours in their calculation of how much sick I’ve had? I can’t be on annual leave and sick at the same time? Or would you ‘not bother’ with this either?

OP posts:
Original poster
HRissue · 21/11/2018 11:04

Ahhh never mind. Once again unpleasantness.

‘All this for two hours’ - yes I do think the principle ie them taking leave AND counting it as sick, in their calculation is cheeky?!

I don’t know why I bother posting. You always get the same old people coming on and being mean / sarcastic / rude

OP posts:
howabout · 21/11/2018 11:04

If it were just about the 2 hours I wouldn't bother. However your manager appears to be going against stated HR policy and you potentially lose out from both ends. You need to push back or your manager will be taking the Mick continually OR they just don't understand HR policy in which case you are doing them a favour by giving them an education.

Original poster
HRissue · 21/11/2018 11:10

@howabout yes - this! It’s not just about losing the leave, which I’m not bothered about really. It’s the fact as you say I’m losing at both sides really.

Will wait for my reply and query with HR if it’s not the right answer. Thanks for the people who have been helpful and given constructive answers

OP posts:
Faultymain5 · 21/11/2018 11:10

I wouldn't have them playing about with my sickness record. If they were petty enough to update your file with two hours worth of sickness as well as annual leave, you should be pedantic enough to ensure your records are accurate.

Keep us posted.

WinterfellWench · 21/11/2018 11:14

OP, no need to defend yourself, most people are on your side here.

You are in the right. They cannot put the time off as LEAVE and also SICK. So something will not add up. Your manager is going to put it down as leave, which it wasn't!

Let him get on with it if you want, and then take a sick day off in the next few weeks. Why not? He clearly doesn't play by the rules, so why should you?

YearOfYouRemember · 21/11/2018 11:15

It feels like you are being punished twice. I can't work out the opposite way as either situation is best for the employer, not you.

WhyAmISoCold · 21/11/2018 11:29

Nope, sure you are right OP. As you were sick the leave should be given back. I'd think badly of a company/boss who would refuse this and I'd get those 2 hours back by being sick another time.

EdisonLightBulb · 21/11/2018 11:34

I don't think this is right either, my company it would be one or the other, you are quite right you cant be off sick and on leave at the same time.

WitchesWeb · 21/11/2018 11:37

otherwise what's to stop unscrupulous people conveniently "being ill" on their AL in order to get more?

In the place I used to work our policy was changed to this because as usual people took the piss.

greendale17 · 21/11/2018 11:40

Is all this fuss really worth it for 2hrs???

DarlingNikita · 21/11/2018 12:11

Is all this fuss really worth it for 2hrs???

All this for two hours............

It's not about the length of time. It's the OP's sickness record and it's important. Jog on.

Labmum · 21/11/2018 12:22

At my work if you're sick whilst on annual leave you get it back. You can self certify for 7 days of sickness....Doctors are often reluctant to give out notes for a period of time that can be self certified as its a waste of their time.

So IME you should get the 2 hours annual leave back to take when you wish.

Faultymain5 · 21/11/2018 13:57

*Is all this fuss really worth it for 2hrs???

All this for two hours............*

Today it's 2 hours. When they getaway with that, then what two days? When is it enough? At what point does she get to pipe up. Her time should be recorded appropriately.

Original poster
HRissue · 21/11/2018 20:58

Still not had a response.....Hmm but had a look at policy online today and the lost time % is calculated using days apparently, so not sure how it’s going to work/ if they will deduct the hour. If they come to me and say they can’t deduct the hour from the lost time then what? Suppose just have to leave it? Confused

OP posts:
Yidette86 · 21/11/2018 22:55

No employer is obliged to give you back annual leave whilst you were sick and can still consider those sick days as part of your record.

We have a policy that is down to managers discretion but you would be expected to have a sick note before they would even consider it.

Curunina · 21/11/2018 23:03

They can't take the leave off you for time when you are sick. This was settled in the European Court of Justice, interpreting the Working Time Directive in a case called Pereda v Madrid Movilidad SA.

There is an article about it here - www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/industrial-relations-dictionary/annual-leave

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