Work problem...really not sure what to do...

[Neverender]

Hello friends on the internet. I need to borrow your brains...

I have an issue at work where what I do relies upon someone else doing their job properly and managing their team of four, which they aren't doing. Let's call her Lorraine. I have recently found out that Lorraine has "checked out" as she will be leaving soon - she's just waiting for her house to sell and then she will be off.

Now, I have had some feedback from the four people who report into Lorraine that I have been overstepping the mark with regard to my role, which I fully accept, but I have only had to do this because Lorraine has effectively given up. My manager understands completely and is backing me up. There is one particularly vocal individual in the team of four who has led the others to this feedback.

The issue here is that they have asked that I don't attend a specific meeting. The meeting is weekly and the next one is tomorrow. I have to respond. I can either;

a. Not go for the time being until Lorraine leaves but tell them I have decided not to go and explain why I have behaved as I have after she has left (I really don't want to put any stress on Lorraine at this point as 1. it's not working, and 2. I don't want to make her last few months awful.

b. continue to go and put pressure on them to implement the changes I need them to.

Has anyone got any practical advice for what I should do next? I am utterly shit at this tactical stuff. Thanks for reading this if you have...

Who is Lorraine’s manager? Why is Lorraine being allowed to coast like this?

Questions to be clarified either at or before the meeting and clarified by your manager:
The purpose of the meeting
The role of each of the attendees

The purpose of the meeting is to report on the implementation of the action plan to resolve issue X.

Neverender will attend to explain the findings and summarise the action plan.
Lorraine will summarise her teams actions taken and plans for the comming week in terms of training.
Neverender will review the action plan at this meeting on a weekly basis.

If it is usually in Lorraine's role to review this, your manager must make it clear that you are nowell responsibile for this.

It's really hard to explain but Lorraine has been there for years and years and is nearly at retirement. She's absolutely lovely, but totally ineffective. My manager needs her to complete some work before she leaves and so doesn't want to push her too hard.

As I said before, it just doesn't result in any action so there's no point in pushing it. Manager was going to restructure to make her redundant but she's now told him (only him, not me) that she will be leaving. I am not meant to know.

ForgivenessIsDivine that is spot on...exactly what I wanted when I started this thread...thank you!

But there is actual work not getting done - why can’t her manager deal with it properly? Either tell her she has to do what she needs to, or take the responsibility away.

The current situation isn’t fair to anyone.

I’d not be happy if my manager was being overruled because it creates confusion.

Reporting lines and responsibility should be clear.

I'd attend the meeting and meet the feedback head on.

Simply state your attendance is required because of your role. If they feel that anyone is overstepping boundaries with regards to role profile they are welcome to raise it with your manager who currently supports the way of working, but as things stand you are committed to delivering XYZ which means you will be attending all meetings and ensuring all actions are adhered to.

You have to meet silly little people like this heads on or you'll forever feel undermined by them.

It wouldn't hurt to remind them especially the gobby one that the role of their manager in this specific areas is to work seamlessly alongside you which is why you and Lorraine have agreed to the current approach. This might at least make gobby pause to reflect if they are gunning for the manager role. They should be charming you, not alienating you.

Their main focus should be on getting the job done. If you need to be at the meeting to ensure that happens, you are helping them out. That's not overstepping, that's called "going to work"

This ^^

You need to woman up here and go to the meeting and say calmly just why. Otheriwse it sounds as if it'll turn into a bitch fest against you. I like Forgiveness's questions.

I'd also add a SMART timescale for each of these things to be delivered, so you can check again in a week's time or 2 weeks,a nd see if any progress has been made.

Lorraine is being completely U here. She's being paid so she needs to work!!

Your manager needs better boundaries and step up. S/he needs to tell mouthy ringleader to back off and take over supervising Lorraine's team, or put you in charge u

So Lorraine has officially resigned? When is her leaving date?
If she has not officially handed in her notice, then it is her manager's responsibility to ensure she is meeting the requirements of her role, not you. That does not mean you shouldn't be making them aware of the issues, but perhaps not doing this in a public forum like the meeting would be more effective.

In terms of roles - are you of the same level as Lorraine?
It is tricky navigating hierarchies and you need to be careful that you don't step on people's toes, even if your motivation is for your team to do their job effectively. My advice would be to take the person complaining about you aside for a coffee, and ask them if they have any concerns around the systems you want to implement, and ask their advice on how they think your team could work with theirs more effectively. You need to build a rapport of mutual respect, and help them to see why they need to be more collaborative. Tell them they do a great job and you enjoy working with them. Find out if they do want to progress in their career, and if you are more senior than them, perhaps you can help them raise their profile in more positive ways in the business. Basically you need to win them over, without throwing Lorraine under a bus. Let her manager deal with that issue!

Yes, Lorraine and I are the same in terms of seniority. Thank you - it's hard as I have some personal stuff going on about which the 'vocal' person knows about and I considered them to be a friend...and now they have done this I don't really want to take them for a coffee!

There are other issues with that person which my Manager is tackling.

No, she hasn't officially resigned yet and my manager is meant to be the only person who knows but she clearly doesn't car any more and hasn't seemed to for months.

Lorraine needs to be treated the same as everyone else and made to do her job until she actually hands her notice in!

Are you senior to the person who is requesting you don’t attend? Because I would imagine if you are, then they really don’t get a say.

Is your manager also Lorraine’s manager?

you need take the moral high ground here, and put aside your personal feelings about the 'vocal' person. It's hard for people to complain about people who are nice and supportive of them in work. no one gets along all of the time, but at least professionally, you need to rise above the bitching and show yourself as a leader and a supporter of other women in business.

People like to be part of the conversation and not to be excluded or have people telling them to do things, when they aren't their manager. It sounds like the current structure of the passing of your work onto their team is broken, and a new way of working agreed amongst you all.

in the meantime, your manager needs to give Lorraine a formal warning, as they can't allow her to continue not do her work, and she either steps up or is managed out of the business. Something doesn't add up with that, as it makes no sense to keep her on if she says is going anyway. The business can't put plans on hold to accommodate one person and their mortgage!

Yes, my manager is Lorraine's manager. The person who has asked me not to go to the meeting reports into Lorraine, so not more senior.

The trouble is that they are so negative, they bitch and moan but don't come up with any suggestions on how we should work - even when asked to do so...

The feedback for me was from a meeting they had to discuss how they could work better going forward but they haven't answered the brief, they've just blamed me!

This is entirely your manager’s issue to solve - she is not managing her staff properly.

She needs to either tell Lorraine her coasting is unacceptable or temove responsibility for the task from her and give it to you.

Loud person needs to be told in no uncertain terms what is expected of them and that they have to work to your requirements if that what the manager wants.

Lorraine still works there - your manager needs to take a firm hand. They sound rather ineffective tbh and I’d be really disappointed in them if I were you.

How much does your manager actually know what you do? I say this because lots don't know the actual work. I was just thinking because of how you said the manager was going to restructure and make Lorraine redundant. If that were the case, her job would no longer exist and therefore not need to be filled. Was the manager going to restructure to give the 4 moaners more responsibility then, or would you have to have picked up the extra work?
But now you say she is leaving anyway so you will be interviewing for her post so presumable the structure works as is?
Oh and yes, ignore the 4 and go to the meetings. (But Lorraine needs to be told to get on with her job too as she is still here)