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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Please tell me I am not the only oldish person without a pension plan

579 replies

QuentinLettsisAbitofAtool · 19/11/2018 17:45

Not a TAAT well it is a bit but sod it

I'm having a bit of a panic attack brought on by the MN survey about pensions. I don't have one, have a big mortgage, not due any parental inheritances and am in my 50s.

Please tell me I'm not alone as that might make me feel less dumb!

Oh and I put "oldish" in the thread title because I mean old in terms of a pension. Twenty somethings who don't have a pension don't fit my criteria!

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 22/11/2018 01:03

Also comparing the UK house price inflation to other countries isn't really comparing like with like

We have something like 3-6 times as many people per square mile than Germany or France.

If there were no btl landlords where would we live when we move next year.
We are not planning to buy straight away but go into rented short term.

Should we put our name down for a council property.

Would that be moral?

Want2bSupermum · 22/11/2018 02:18

Well I'm an evil LL, running it as a business. None of my tenants have an ability to own. I charge a reasonable rent which covers the cost of capital, maintenance and my time. On MN I often see mortgage vs rent and the conclusion that LLs are greedy. HMO rules are expensive and properly maintaining a home is expensive. These comparisons take the cost of the mortgage only as the cost of owning. There is zero consideration for maintenance costs which are expensive. A new roof every 20 years, new flooring every 10 years, new kitchen after 15-20 years, appliances every 5 years or so and a boiler replacement every 10-15 years all adds up and buying isn't always cheaper, especially if you are lower income because as an owner you don't qualify for HB.

BatsAreCool · 22/11/2018 07:34

I am laughing at the branding of evil immoral landlords.

Do people really think that if all the private landlords sold up they would be bought by either 1. The council who have no money or 2. The people who rent who don't want to buy or would not be given a mortgage by a bank?

CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack · 22/11/2018 08:21

Landlord = A person who has to put down a deposit for the house. Pay to ensure all gas, electricity is installed properly. That all appliances work properly. Pay out to an agent to ensure all checks are done on the tenants. Cross your fingers and hope your new tenants are good people who won't trash your property and stop paying rent after the first month and it takes time and money to evict them - whilst still paying monthly mortgage payments.

There are scum landlords just as there as scum tenants don;t forget.

We had a BTL property years ago with a no pets policy - the tenant installed a huge fish which leaked, without our permission. What do you do? Throw them out even though they are good and pay on time each month or turn a blind eye to the fish tank (which could leak all over your wooden floor at any minute meaning the cost of a new floor and installation). Would the insurance cover it - Doubt it......

Yes it's a breeze being a landlord.

Craft1905 · 22/11/2018 08:58

The fact remains that if a buy to let is your retirement income, you are not supporting yourself, you are living off someone else’s money.

Dear god!!! Everyone is living off someone else's money. The butcher gets up early, goes to market, buys meat...and sells it at a profit to people who lack the time/inclination.knowledge to go to the market themselves. That's what business is.

Where do you think the money comes to pay state pension? Pensioners are living off someone else's money, the workers of the day who are paying other people's state pension out of their taxes.

Ffs, you won't be happy until we are all working in a govt owed collective under some kind of Stalinist 5 year plan, standing around the windswept piazzas of our council owned concrete blocks discussing Chekhov.

Original poster
QuentinLettsisAbitofAtool · 22/11/2018 11:45

I'm amused by the BTL landlords acting as though they are providing a social service of some kind.

Also a bit worried that Craft is going to combust.

OP posts:
Original poster
QuentinLettsisAbitofAtool · 22/11/2018 11:46

Are you a Brexiter, Crafty?

OP posts:
BatsAreCool · 22/11/2018 12:31

I'm amused by the BTL landlords acting as though they are providing a social service of some kind.

They offer a service just like the majority of businesses. I am not a LL but I have rented in the past and had no issue paying rent to someone else who owned the property. To label private LL's immoral is bizarre.

Wordthe · 22/11/2018 12:35

Buying up all the housing stock because you have extra leverage and in the process forcing up the prices so that families who need homes can't afford to buy but are forced to rent from you
So that instead of working and investing in their own future they have to work to fund your retirement nothing immoral about that of course

BatsAreCool · 22/11/2018 12:40

Only if you think LLs are single handed responsible for the price of houses and the affordability of mortgages.

Craft1905 · 22/11/2018 12:40

forcing up the prices so that families who need homes can't afford to buy but are forced to rent from you

What if they want to rent? What if they have no desire to buy? Because buying doesn't suit their requirements.

JoyceTempleSavage · 22/11/2018 12:46

I was an unintentional LL once when I found myself pregnant with a one bed flat I couldn’t sell.

There’s a big difference between people like me (and e.g those who move in with a partner and keep their existing property to let out) and big scale HMO LLs who are setting out to buy up housing stock and whose business model is designed to profit from housing shortages

The answer for me is government policy making that business model unprofitable, be that further taxation, improved tenancy rights or rent increase caps

Wordthe · 22/11/2018 12:55

The rise in buy-to-let has contributed to the housing crisis
Housing costs are completely out of step with wages
Large sectors of the population cannot access secure affordable and suitable accommodation even though they are in work
A secure affordable home is a basic fundamental requirement just like healthcare and education you cannot have a full life without it.
People in their 20s and 30s who want to settle down and have families, bring up children, produce the next generation, they can't do it because they can't afford anywhere to live
because greedy people have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices

greedy landlords are destroying society

Craft1905 · 22/11/2018 13:04

People in their 20s and 30s who want to settle down and have families, bring up children, produce the next generation, they can't do it because they can't afford anywhere to live because greedy people have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices

Yes, I've noticed how no one in their 20s or 30s has children anymore. Grin

CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack · 22/11/2018 13:04

I think some are just jealous. A LL does not create a housing shortage because people will be living in the rented homes.

Being a LL is a good idea as if you pay off the mortgage before you retire (Remember the rent will pay the monthly mortgage payments anyway) you have a monthly income of £400+ from your tenants.

Craft1905 · 22/11/2018 13:08

I was an unintentional LL once when I found myself pregnant with a one bed flat I couldn’t sell. There’s a big difference between people like me (and e.g those who move in with a partner and keep their existing property to let out) and big scale HMO LLs who are setting out to buy up housing stock and whose business model is designed to profit from housing shortages

No there isn't. You were just another greedy landlord, who is single handedly stopping reproduction so humanity is going to die out. And it's all down to you!

I don't know how you sleep at night, killing off our species. Wink

Wordthe · 22/11/2018 13:08

You're quite right Craft the birth rate is declining, when people do have children their lives are hugely disrupted when they have to move because the landlord decides to sell the property or increase the rent

CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack · 22/11/2018 13:10

Do you want this?

Or this?

Please tell me I am not the only oldish person without a pension plan
Please tell me I am not the only oldish person without a pension plan
Wordthe · 22/11/2018 13:14

Landlords divert public money into thier private pockets
because rents are so high compared to wages many people have to claim housing benefit even though they are working

Landlords also out compete would be owner occupiers, people who would like to work to earn money to invest in their own futures are forced instead to divert a large portion of their wages to the landlord

The landlord is a rentier who doesn't have to work but just sits there and takes the profit from people who do work

Original poster
QuentinLettsisAbitofAtool · 22/11/2018 13:15

Why do people try to stifle debate by calling other people bitter or jealous when they have a different view to you?

OP posts:
Wordthe · 22/11/2018 13:19

There is nothing wrong with pointing out injustices
inequality, unfairness and the winner-take-all/'might is right' mentality are harmful to society

Storm4star · 22/11/2018 13:20

Councils and housing associations do buy excess stock. My road is mainly private with just 3 or 4 houses being owned by a housing association. A friend of mine worked for an outer London council. A developer built a block of flats there but couldn't sell them, no one wanted to pay the sort of money he was selling them for in that particular area. The council bought them all. If the only option in my area was private landlords I couldn't afford to live there, as "market rent" is 3 times what I pay now. As I say, if someone wants to fund their retirement from buy to lets, that's entirely up to them. Just don't pretend that you are doing some sort of public service by doing so. You are profiting from the misfortune of others who cannot find anywhere cheaper to live. Don't tell me that anyone, irrespective of circumstances, would not want to pay 1/3 of the rent they pay now if they had the choice.

Oliversmumsarmy · 22/11/2018 13:22

Wordthe you do know that properties are put on the open market. That means anyone has the opportunity to buy.
They aren't put onto some shady website that only LLs have access to.

And as for

Large sectors of the population cannot access secure affordable and suitable accommodation even though they are in work

I take it you didn't see the Panorama programme on UC which was an eye opener.

There were LLs who wanted to rent to people and people who were homeless who weren't allowed to rent because of government red tape.

Utterly ridiculous.

I would still like to an answer to the question of when we move and I need to rent somewhere short term in your view if there were no private LLs what should I do?Put my name on a council housing waiting list?

Wordthe · 22/11/2018 13:23

You are profiting from the misfortune of others who cannot find anywhere cheaper to live
Yes landlords are profiting from the fact that rising housing costs are destructive to society as a whole

Wordthe · 22/11/2018 13:24

Landlords have greater leverage, we all know that they are complete would be owner occupiers